The duties of Non-Combatant Corps

[CGM]

I am looking at the Non-Combatant Corps and find I have some questions.

According to The Long Long Trail eight NCC Companies existed by the middle of June 1916.

Was this the final total?

Looking at the Corps which went abroad did they all go to France or did any go elsewhere?

What range of duties did those abroad carry out?

Did any members of the NCC serve as stretcher- bearers?

CGM

Edited to add:

Were the NCC used for battlefield clearance?

[Magnumbellum]

The numbering of the NCC began with a geographical division, Northern, Eastern, Southern, Western and Scottish (Wales was included in Western), and companies were numbered within those geographical descriptions, e,g, No 1 Southern Company, No 2 Southern Company etc. I cannot say how high the numbering went in the case of the various geographical descriptions, but in some cases, at least, it went as high as 6, so ultimately there must have been more than six individual companies.

I am not aware of any NCC companies serving abroad other than in France, but I could not say definitively. It is likely that the logistics of keeping NCC companies entrely separate from battle zones made the exercise unprofitable other than in France.

NCC duties in France were similar to those in the UK - handling and transporting non-lethal stores (food, clothing etc), road and railway making and repairing and other work not involving handling or using weapons and ammunition. For that reason NCC was not involved in battlefield clearance, but but could have been involved at a secondary stage of making good damage to the infrastructure of a locality.

It is a common myth that NCC members were used as stretcher bearers, but this was not a regular function. They were not normally at the front line. Stretcher bearers were either RAMC personnel, that being one of their standard functions, or members of any ordinary army unit detailed to do the job at a particular time.

[CGM]

It was very remiss of me not to have replied and thanked Magnumbellum for all this information before now and I am sorry.

I have heard several times that NCC members were stretcher bearers but always suspected this was not true.

I can answer one of my questions myself now - In total 34 NCC companies were formed and 8 served in France. This information comes from "No Labour, No Battle" (Starling and Lee).

CGM

[Magnumbellum]

Thanks for that reference, of which I was not aware. A total of 34 companies sounds quite likely, but there would have been a gradual build-up to this number in 1916 and a gradual diminution in 1919-20, when the NCC was wound up..

One piece of the evidence of the fluidity of the NCC is that some men are known to have been moved around between at least three different companies,

Some companies were attached to a particular regiment in the UK, carrying out labouring duties and being accommodated in the regimental barracks or camp.

[David_Underdown]

The numbering of the NCC began with a geographical division, Northern, Eastern, Southern, Western and Scottish (Wales was included in Western), and companies were numbered within those geographical descriptions, e,g, No 1 Southern Company, No 2 Southern Company etc. I cannot say how high the numbering went in the case of the various geographical descriptions, but in some cases, at least, it went as high as 6, so ultimately there must have been more than six individual companies.

These sound like the standard home commands (I think London is sometimes also included). Wales was certainly part of Western Command (HQ in Chester).

[Ron Clifton]

Yes David, that is correct.

London District was not part of any Command, but its GOC had many of the powers of a GOC-in-C of a Home Command.

Ron

[Magnumbellum]

Thanks for these explanations, which make sense within the overall structure of the Army.

[CGM]

I believe there is very little in the way of documentation for the NCC but the last post in THIS THREAD shows an orbat for December 1918. (Courtesy of themonsstar).

Forgive me if you know this already but as the term ORBAT was new to me I looked it up on The Long, Long Trail.

"An Order of Battle (often shortened to ORBAT) is the identification, strength, command structure and disposition of the personnel, units and equipment of any military force. It is an organisational view of the army."

I would very much like to know if others for the NCC exist, and where they can be seen.

Thank you if you can help.

CGM

[researchingreg]

I have the Army Service record of one of my Great Uncles Pte Percy John Fordham 1071 (born July 1890 died March 1965) who was in the Eastern Non Combatant Corps. He was exempted from combatant service on conscientious grounds: (exempted by local Tribunal. Enfield. 27 April 1916. Cert No. 95) - He was medically classified for Field Service at Home. On his service record it shows he was called up on 9 May 1916 posted on 10 May 1916, then posted on 10 June 1916 to No 2 Aldershot Coy N.C.C.

The recruiting Office was Tottenham and he stated he had a preference for serving in the ASC.

That is all the information. The service record does not give a date of discharge or any other service.

Why is no date of discharge given or any further service details? I would like to know what he did.

[Magnumbellum]

I have the Army Service record of one of my Great Uncles Pte Percy John Fordham 1071 (born July 1890 died March 1965) who was in the Eastern Non Combatant Corps. He was exempted from combatant service on conscientious grounds: (exempted by local Tribunal. Enfield. 27 April 1916. Cert No. 95) - He was medically classified for Field Service at Home. On his service record it shows he was called up on 9 May 1916 posted on 10 May 1916, then posted on 10 June 1916 to No 2 Aldershot Coy N.C.C.

The recruiting Office was Tottenham and he stated he had a preference for serving in the ASC.

That is all the information. The service record does not give a date of discharge or any other service.

Why is no date of discharge given or any further service details? I would like to know what he did.

The stated preference for the ASC does not make sense for a conscientious objector, as the only units in which a man exempted from combatant service could serve were the NCC, and, for a very few, the RAMC. It is possible that your great uncle had vaguely heard of some way of serving in the Army as a guaranteed non-combatant, and made an assumption that that would mean the ASC. The tribunal would accept his willingness to be exempted only from combatant service, and so certify him, and the Army would automatically call him up to the NCC.

"No 2 Aldershot Coy NCC" does mot make sense, since, as has been explained earlier in the thread, NCC companies were numbered according to the geographical designations of the five Home Commands. What must be intended is, No 2 Southern Company, NCC, based at Aldershot.

I would ordinarily interpret the lack of any further details as indicating that he served with that company, in and around Aldershot, throughout his period of service. However, you have referred to him as also serving in one of the Eastern companies, but cite no date or source for that.

His service would probably have ended in late 1919, and he would have been given a certificate of discharge, but I presume that that has not survived.

[researchingreg]

The stated preference for the ASC does not make sense for a conscientious objector, as the only units in which a man exempted from combatant service could serve were the NCC, and, for a very few, the RAMC. It is possible that your great uncle had vaguely heard of some way of serving in the Army as a guaranteed non-combatant, and made an assumption that that would mean the ASC. The tribunal would accept his willingness to be exempted only from combatant service, and so certify him, and the Army would automatically call him up to the NCC.

"No 2 Aldershot Coy NCC" does mot make sense, since, as has been explained earlier in the thread, NCC companies were numbered according to the geographical designations of the five Home Commands. What must be intended is, No 2 Southern Company, NCC, based at Aldershot.

I would ordinarily interpret the lack of any further details as indicating that he served with that company, in and around Aldershot, throughout his period of service. However, you have referred to him as also serving in one of the Eastern companies, but cite no date or source for that.

His service would probably have ended in late 1919, and he would have been given a certificate of discharge, but I presume that that has not survived.

Magnumbellum

Thanks for the reply and information. His Army Service record is only three pages with hardly any information. He was my grandmothers youngest brother and two of my uncles were in the ASC, so he may have got the idea from them about mentioning the ASC.

[David_Underdown]

Reg,

Are you aware that his tribunal record is available (free download) MH 47/9/3 http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14091138 ?

[Magnumbellum]

Since no mention had been made in the earlier post about Percy Fordham appealing, I had not thought about the possibility of a surviving tribunal record.

The link given is to the Middlesex County Military Service Appeal Tribunal records, deposited in the National Archives, accessible only by those with an Ancestry sub.

It must be presumed that either Percy was dissatisfied with whatever the decision of the Enfield Tribunal was, or the Military Representative was, and one or other, or both, appealed, the end result being conscription to the NCC.

[David_Underdown]

Magnumbellum,

the appeal records are a free download. No sub of any sort is required.

The main issue leading to appeal was simply a postal mixup which meant Percy did not receive notification of the original tribunal date, and nor did his initial written statement of his position reach the tribunal.

[Magnumbellum]

David

Thanks for clarification about access. I have now read the entire file, and my analysis is somewhat different from yours.

It is clear from both Percy Fordham's statement on his Application form for exemption from military service and an accompanying letter that he was a conscientious objector on the humanitarian ground that war is morally wrong and that he could not take action leading to the sending of another's soul to eternity. He mentioned that, well before conscription was instituted, he had received a questionnaire from the Enfield Recruiting Committee asking why he had not voluntarily enlisted, to which he responded by writing "Conscientious objector" and sending it in.

Percy also made it clear in terms that his objection extended to non-combatant service within the military, although he would be willing to fulfill a requirement to perform wholly civilian work. It is, therefore, difficult to understand the origin of the story that he expressed any interest in serving in the ASC - there is certainly nothing of that kind in the 22 Tribunal case papers. There is an oblique reference to the Military Representative at the Enfield Tribunal having made unspecified comments; it is possible that those comments were to the effect that his brothers were already in the ASC, so why should he not join them?

The Enfield Military Service Tribunal refused him any exemption, having decided that he was not a conscientious objector, but simply looking for an excuse not to perform military service.

Unsurprisingly, Percy appealed to the Middlesex County Appeal Tribunal, but, because he had changed his address, he did not receive the notice of his appeal hearing date (even though he had notified the office of the change), and, in his absence, his Appeal was dismissed. Eventually, by persistence, Percy was able to obtain another hearing, where his Appeal was allowed to the extent that he was exempted from combatant service, but would be required to serve in the Non-Combatant Corps.

Obviously reluctantly, Percy seems to have accepted that decision.

On a general note, I would remark that the case papers seem to have been scanned in such a random order that even the two pages of the Application form appear completely separate from each other, and likewise the two pages of the covering letter. Sequenced esoteric documentation can be daunting enough for the novice, but random ordering seems a complication too far.

[researchingreg]

Reg,

Are you aware that his tribunal record is available (free download) MH 47/9/3 http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14091138 ?

David

Thanks for this information. I have read through the tribunal papers now, and this gives me an idea of what went on. However when he was in the NCC at Aldershot, no further information is available on his discharge date or what he did, while in the NCC. To clear up Magnumbellum's point about having brothers in the ASC. My uncles were not his brothers but were his nephews. He was one of my great uncles. Interestingly 74 Jackson Road, Barnet was his eldest brother's (Thomas Fordham) address and as far as I know he was working directly for him. So where Mr Hewitt came in as his employer I don't know unless he suddenly changed jobs. All the rest of my male relations except those too old to join up did, and even some of them that were too old did as well. So it seems the Tribunal had some cause for doubting his conscientious objection, however it may well have been genuine. I note on page 5 of the mixed up docs (Appeal No. 95) he was given "Absolute" exemption but was still called up on 9 May 1916.

All very interesting.

[Magnumbellum]

Thanks for the clarification that it was Percy's uncles were in the ASC, not his brother's

On looking again at your Post 8, I note that the alleged preference for the ASC apparently appears on his enlistment paper when he reported on 9 May 1916, on call-up, as a certified non-combatant, after all the tribunals were over. Such an alleged preference is not only contrary to his previous rejection of the Army both as combatant and non-combatant, but would have been outside the power of the Army at that stage, who would have been bound by law to follow the final decision of the Appeal Tribunal to confirm his non-combatant status. It is possible that Percy, not understanding the technicalities, thought that ASC would count as non-combatant.

You are mistaken in interpreting page 5 of the documents as granting Absolute exemption to Percy. Page 5 is the first page of his original Application to the Enfield Tribunal, and the "Absolute", written in Percy's own hand. is his statement of the type of exemption he was requesting, viz Absolute exemption.

The decision of the Enfierld Tribunal is recorded on page 8 of the documents, where it is clearly written, "exemption from combatant service", ultimately confirmed by the Middlesex Appeal Tribunal, under which he was called up.

As to the genuineness his conscientious objection, his statements on his Application form and the additional letter strike me as the more convincing among hundreds I have seen.

[researchingreg]

Thanks for the clarification that it was Percy's uncles were in the ASC, not his brother's

On looking again at your Post 8, I note that the alleged preference for the ASC apparently appears on his enlistment paper when he reported on 9 May 1916, on call-up, as a certified non-combatant, after all the tribunals were over. Such an alleged preference is not only contrary to his previous rejection of the Army both as combatant and non-combatant, but would have been outside the power of the Army at that stage, who would have been bound by law to follow the final decision of the Appeal Tribunal to confirm his non-combatant status. It is possible that Percy, not understanding the technicalities, thought that ASC would count as non-combatant.

You are mistaken in interpreting page 5 of the documents as granting Absolute exemption to Percy. Page 5 is the first page of his original Application to the Enfield Tribunal, and the "Absolute", written in Percy's own hand. is his statement of the type of exemption he was requesting, viz Absolute exemption.

The decision of the Enfierld Tribunal is recorded on page 8 of the documents, where it is clearly written, "exemption from combatant service", ultimately confirmed by the Middlesex Appeal Tribunal, under which he was called up.

As to the genuineness his conscientious objection, his statements on his Application form and the additional letter strike me as the more convincing among hundreds I have seen.

Thanks for the reply. It was Percy's nephews that were in the ASC, not his uncles, but my uncles. Sorry for the confusion and I think this information may be a red herring as they joined the ASC after May 1916 any way, so would not have had any influence on Percy's choice of service. And thanks for the clarification on the exemption information. This is the first time I have looked at Conscientious Objectors, whereas you must have studied them in detail. I would still like to know how long Percy served in the Army and when he was discharged, but I don't suppose I will find out as it is not on his Army service record.

[Magnumbellum]

I would still like to know how long Percy served in the Army and when he was discharged, but I don't suppose I will find out as it is not on his Army service record.

As I have tried to explain, the most reasonable assumption is that Percy served in the Non-Combatant Corps in the Aldershot area, without incident, until discharge in late 1919.

[Moonraker]

I've just won on eBay a nice postcard (which I'll post here in due course) showing five named NCC members outside their orderly room at Chisledon Camp; this prompted me to look at this and other threads about the Corps and a couple of other websites, which confirmed my suspicions that members were not well regarded. Wikipedia says that the Corps received less pay than most other soldiers and were generally held in low esteem by British society. It was disparagingly referred to as the 'No-Courage Corps' by some sections of the British press, and as the 'Pick and Shovel Brigade' by The Times newspaper. The Corps was discriminated against when its members were refused the January 1919 army pay increase, and they were denied any final gratuity. It was demobilised more slowly than combatants and it was not finally disbanded until January 1920.

I've got quite a few notes about how Conscientious Objectors were treated, but not much about the experiences of NCC members - though I contributed one anecdote on

this previous thread

(post 16)

Would an NCC sergeant receive much respect from men junior to him but serving in other units? Campaign medals apart,were any NCC members decorated? What sort of officer hierarchy was there - for example, what rank was its most senior officer? And were the officers regarded as not efficient enough (in health terms or ability) to command other units?

Moonraker

[Magnumbellum]

The only personnel actually serving in the NCC were conscientious objectors so designated by military service tribunals, and serving as privates. Officers and NCOs were seconded from other units, usually the Pioneer Corps, but it is likely that some were were men who by reason of age, aptitude etc were deemed able to be spared from more mainline duties.

It is apparent from incidents, particularly in training,, that some officers and NCOs did not relish the task of of taking responsibility in the NCC, but I am not aware of any incident indicating that an officer or NCO seconded to the NCC was the subject of obloquy by other combatant soldiers.

What is known is that occasionally when a conscientious objector forcibly enlisted in the NCC, or into a combatant unit, publicly refused orders, soldiers in other units were heard to say, "I wish I had your guts", or words to that effect.

[Moonraker]

Thanks for that, Magnumbellum. Googling produced a number of passing references to NCC members at Chisledon, and this question in the House of Commons alleging persecution:

Hansard

Here's the photo to which I refer in my opening post:

L to R: L/Cpl Young, "HG", Darling, Cpl Coningsby; seated: Sgt Newman

[Magnumbellum]

Further to my earlier reply, I overlooked answering the question whether any NCC members were decorated: I am not aware of any.

It may be of interest that 33 NCC members died in WW1 in various ways, none in action. They are buried in CWGC graves, six of them abroad.

[Chris_Baker]

I have today added a page about the NCC onto the Long, Long Trail. It includes one of the saddest human stories I have come across. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-non-combatant-corps-2/

[DavidOwen]

2 hours ago, Chris_Baker said:

I have today added a page about the NCC onto the Long, Long Trail. It includes one of the saddest human stories I have come across. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-non-combatant-corps-2/

A sad tale indeed Chris and so avoidable.

David