Khaki Posted 6 May , 2015 Share Posted 6 May , 2015 Were artillery pieces covered with tarpaulins during particularly bad weather?, I have seen photo's of muzzle covers but I presume the breech and elevating gear etc needed protection from the elements. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelfe Posted 7 May , 2015 Share Posted 7 May , 2015 Not really, they may have had breach covers but basically guns were and are designed to be exposed to the elements. Proper gunners don't stop firing if there's rain, hail or snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogilwy Posted 7 May , 2015 Share Posted 7 May , 2015 Not really, they may have had breach covers but basically guns were and are designed to be exposed to the elements. Proper gunners don't stop firing if there's rain, hail or snow. Only when the bar opens! Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Posted 7 May , 2015 Share Posted 7 May , 2015 Only when the bar opens! Rod And if your mates are getting the round in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 May , 2015 Share Posted 7 May , 2015 Were artillery pieces covered with tarpaulins during particularly bad weather?, I have seen photo's of muzzle covers but I presume the breech and elevating gear etc needed protection from the elements. khaki During movement in inclement weather they generally were (e.g. Third Battle Ypres) and shaped tarpaulins were issued for the purpose. You are right that as well as muzzles, breeches and recoil mechanisms were vulnerable to ingress of mud and sand. The intent was to facilitate the rapid redeployment after movement. It is sometimes forgotten that even during the period of trench stalemate field guns moved relatively regularly to avoid counter battery fire. Even siege guns often did so before big offensives and then relied initially on 'predicted' fire on silently registered targets. This increasingly became possible with advances in the sphere of survey and wind tables ('meteorology'), all of which were developed between 1916 and 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 7 May , 2015 Author Share Posted 7 May , 2015 Thanks Frogsmile, It would be interesting and useful to see photos of the guns covered in bad weather or on the move, what a misery for the gunners ! khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 7 May , 2015 Share Posted 7 May , 2015 QUOTE: ...photos of the guns covered in bad weather... That raises another question - could cameras be used in bad weather at that time? D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 7 May , 2015 Author Share Posted 7 May , 2015 Hello daggers, Probably like the guns, using tarpaulins? I think it would be possible but awkward. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 May , 2015 Share Posted 7 May , 2015 Thanks Frogsmile, It would be interesting and useful to see photos of the guns covered in bad weather or on the move, what a misery for the gunners ! khaki Photos of such movement are rare, not least because whenever possible they were carried out at night. The only images I can remember were from moving film produced for the public at home (Somme I think) and they did not show bad weather. Tripod cameras of the time would have needed to be well protected too given the glass plate technology. It would have required a lot of pre preparation and so never impromptu and thus 'real'. I have carried out such moves myself in the late 60s and early 70s and later got hold of some WW1 tactical and handling pamphlets from WW1 that I could compare with the modern practice. I was utterly shocked to see that very little had changed. It was always a small advance party laying out white tape from an assembly area to the new gun line, each position predetermined and aiming posts positioned using prismatic compass, with a night light device on each shielded and facing towards the gun, covers only lifted on arrival when each detachment was brought in by guides from the advance party. Reserve ammunition would come up under the BQMS as a rear party. In inclement weather the guns were covered as described with canvas (only later in my service was this plasticised). The differences between the two sets of pamphlets were minimal despite the 50+ years that had passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 May , 2015 Share Posted 7 May , 2015 Interestingly the canvas tarpaulins used to be made of cloth weaved in India but treated, cut shaped and stitched as part of a huge and specialised industry running out of Dundee, Scotland. Interestingly the canvas tarpaulins used to be made of cloth weaved in India but treated, cut shaped and stitched as part of a huge and specialised industry running out of Dundee, Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Posted 7 May , 2015 Share Posted 7 May , 2015 In 1970 whilst stationed in Germany, our regiment had an admin parade in the field while on exercise. The rain was incessant and the Leyland 10 - tonners (and guns) sank up to their axles as we tried to get the Bofors guns into position. It took 24 hours of pure hard slog, and I don't remember the guns ever being covered up during that storm, apart from the canvas muzzle cover and a 'bin' over the receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 8 May , 2015 Author Share Posted 8 May , 2015 Would rain water entering the barrel cause a dangerous increase in pressure upon firing a round? khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelfe Posted 8 May , 2015 Share Posted 8 May , 2015 No, when you open the breach any water runs out. In any case there is rarely any serious rain in Europe, for starters it doesn't have a monsoonal climate. Even in such a climate it was never a problem (I've done two wars in such conditions). There's plenty of photos of guns covered by tarps during movement, not least to protect them from mud splatter. Once in action it's not a problem (those of us familiar with tropical warfare understand wet conditions, Europe does not get seriously damp). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelmaker Posted 10 August , 2015 Share Posted 10 August , 2015 There are a number of photographs in IWM collection that show artillery pieces on the move. Here is one of the road train for a 9.2" howitzer towed by a Holt. The tarp was not seemingly "cut to size", just an overall covering. Others show a "tailored" muzzle cover and breech cover. This is unusual as the mounting bed is not included, just the barrel trailer and carriage assembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyinthesky2 Posted 10 August , 2015 Share Posted 10 August , 2015 The main problems caused by the weather wasn't the guns but observation. War diary entries have many entries that not much firing done because of the weather. Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchener's Bugle Posted 10 August , 2015 Share Posted 10 August , 2015 Excellent picture that Modelmaker............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelmaker Posted 10 August , 2015 Share Posted 10 August , 2015 Did the photo come out, all I can see is the attachment ref ????? George. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 10 August , 2015 Share Posted 10 August , 2015 Did the photo come out, all I can see is the attachment ref ????? George. No, it doesn't look as though it did. Is it one of these : http://zoom.iwm.org.uk/view/355141&cat=photographs&oid=object-205246107 http://zoom.iwm.org.uk/view/364850&cat=photographs&oid=object-205194592 http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205317667 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelmaker Posted 11 August , 2015 Share Posted 11 August , 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummell Posted 11 August , 2015 Share Posted 11 August , 2015 The 18-pdr in this photo is not covered despite the obviously appalling ground (although it does not appear to be raining). There is a rolled tarp on the limber, though, and what I take to be a rolled cam net bundled on top of the breech. I would say that the tarp is for the ammunition, though, rather than the gun. Far more important to keep that clean and dry than the outside of the gun. - brummell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerhunter Posted 11 August , 2015 Share Posted 11 August , 2015 Interestingly the canvas tarpaulins used to be made of cloth weaved in India but treated, cut shaped and stitched as part of a huge and specialised industry running out of Dundee, Scotland. I have often wondered about the origin of the millions of sand bags. When I was doing geography O Level we covered the Ganges Delta. Bengal was spit by partition; the Jute crop was grown on one side of the border but the other side had the jute mills. So it was grown on one side and spun on the other. The resulting cloth was sent to Dundee for making up into sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelmaker Posted 11 August , 2015 Share Posted 11 August , 2015 Brummel, Interesting photo, the 18pdr has the armoured box for the hydraulic buffer fluid on the recuperator....continuous firing weakened the recoil springs, so the springs were replaced with hydraulic buffers. The box contained oil to keep it topped up, so the level was constant. The later guns had a newer recuperator buffer fitted with a "torpedo" shaped end. George. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummell Posted 11 August , 2015 Share Posted 11 August , 2015 George, Yes I had noticed that - now that you remind me, I think I remember reading what it was in a museum. I think Firepower or IWM has an 18-pdr with that modification; I have definitely seen it somewhere. It is much the same now, No. 1s are often topping up their oil levels, although thankfully the oil reservoir need no longer be quite so well armoured! - brummell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelmaker Posted 11 August , 2015 Share Posted 11 August , 2015 I have no definite data, but I would think the modification came out around 1916.....the shell shortage of 1915 meant that artillery was limited, the extended barrages of 1916 showed the weakness in the recoil system, I believe the 6" 26cwt howitzer was modified at the same time, as there are photo's of it with and without the oil tank. George. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David B Posted 11 August , 2015 Share Posted 11 August , 2015 Think of a naval gun mounted on the front end of the ship, apart from a plug at the muzzle (correct name escapes me) they are exposed to the weather 24 hours a day and nothing seems to go wrong. In later days Bofors guns used to be covered over the working end of the gun when not in use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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