T8HANTS Posted 6 May , 2015 Share Posted 6 May , 2015 Ok you lovers of pointy things! below is the family bayonet, my father had it before I was born 60+ years ago, he didn't serve overseas, so I don't know where he got it from or its age, etc. Its German make Simson & Co Suel, has a little rampant lion on the other side to the makers mark, and no other marks apart for the same lion on the tang of the scabbard. It has the most wonderful oil smell coming from scabbard and the blade and one side of the grips have got very hot at sometime before we owned it. Over to you folks, chapter and verse please, Ta! Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 6 May , 2015 Share Posted 6 May , 2015 (edited) Isn't that a Bulgarian mark? edit: Oops on a M1888 bayonet. Like this: And here is the full page with close ups of marks etc Edited 6 May , 2015 by 4thGordons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 6 May , 2015 Author Share Posted 6 May , 2015 It does look very like the M1888, as the 1895 has two rivets through the cross piece, which mine does not. So is this a Balkan campaign bring back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 6 May , 2015 Share Posted 6 May , 2015 I also think the M1895 has a traditional muzzle ring without the flange/screw and the cutting edge on the up side of the blade (relative to the muzzle ring) As to source......? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 6 May , 2015 Share Posted 6 May , 2015 Hang on. I'll go and get trenchtrotter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 6 May , 2015 Share Posted 6 May , 2015 I agree with Chris. It's a German made, Austrian bayonet with markings that indicate Bulgarian use ... simple stuff these bayonets.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 7 May , 2015 Share Posted 7 May , 2015 I'm here! ok well it's a buy a knot. Has a handle and a metal bit wiv a spike. Probably from Europe. Was for putting on a fire stick. Hope this helps. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 7 May , 2015 Share Posted 7 May , 2015 Well, now you know what it is! But, just to confirm, this is the maker's mark? No serial number? BTW, as I understand it these were in use by the Wehrmacht and also Bulgarian forces during WW2. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 7 May , 2015 Author Share Posted 7 May , 2015 Yes that is exactly the makers mark on mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msdt Posted 7 May , 2015 Share Posted 7 May , 2015 I have a couple of Bulgarian marked examples of this model but the NCO version. Both have the Bulgarian lion but on the crosspiece, and are made by OEWG. Unfortunately I have no pics or access at present. I think that they are serialed. Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 8 May , 2015 Author Share Posted 8 May , 2015 Sorry to bring this back up, but approximately how old is my bayonet 19th or 20th century? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 8 May , 2015 Share Posted 8 May , 2015 Difficult one off-hand, w/o checking, but I would guess that it would be a pre-GW contract. Again, off-hand, I think that Simson and Sohn were still around post GW, and I think made 84/98 bayonets for the Reichseheer/Wehrmacht, but I can't see why they would be fulfilling a Bulgarian contract 1914-1918 or 1918-1939... I'll put it on the back burner and see if I spot anything else relevant - 21:00 hrs here and time to put the kids to bed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 8 May , 2015 Share Posted 8 May , 2015 Sorry to bring this back up, but approximately how old is my bayonet 19th or 20th century? Well the bayonet is a M1888 made for the Mannlicher M1888 rifle, including the later M1888-90 variation, so on the face of it, it would be a late 19th century manufacture. However we do have a problem here, as it is a contract made example, manufactured by the German firm Simson & Co. They didn't make the rifles at all, the rifles were made by OEWG in Steyr, Austria. This particular example looks to have been produced directly for Bulgaria by Simson. The Austrians did sell-on a large number (140,000) of these used rifles to Bulgaria in 1913-14 so I would guess it was made for the Bulgarians at that time, to replace missing bayonets and to provide spares. So in that case that would make it an early 20th century bayonet.! I hope I haven't confused things too much ... Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 9 May , 2015 Share Posted 9 May , 2015 Gareth, According to a Czech web-site I just looked at the lion you have on yours is the early type, so pre-WW1. Oh, and it seems that many of these M.1888 made by Simson were dismantled and converted into M.95 bayonets, so you have a rarity there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 9 May , 2015 Author Share Posted 9 May , 2015 Interesting Father was not a collector, so it was a gift from someone. He did have a pal who was with Tito's partisans, and I remember as a small boy asking him "What did you do in the war "Uncle" Harold" the reply was "I just blew up trains, son". It was many years later I began to understand the full significance of that statement! Thanks all! Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 9 May , 2015 Share Posted 9 May , 2015 ...He did have a pal who was with Tito's partisans, and I remember as a small boy asking him "What did you do in the war "Uncle" Harold" the reply was "I just blew up trains, son". It was many years later I began to understand the full significance of that statement! That could explain it! One of the European web-sites - can't remember which now - indicated / implied / stated these were in use in WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msdt Posted 19 May , 2015 Share Posted 19 May , 2015 Have some pics of my 3 now, they are all Austrian made and serialed. Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 20 May , 2015 Share Posted 20 May , 2015 Those look nice! I only have one of the NCO models, and that (a M.1895) has been sharpened and chromed and is missing its 'troddel' loop... Never seen a M.1888 here... But, that top one, the M.1895... Are you sure that is not a (possibly refurbished) Greek Y.1903 or whatever? Might be worth having a closer look. The lightly-struck serial numbers, to the right of the rivets, are typically Greek. And what about the height of the muzzle ring and the muzzle ring diameter? Difficult to see from the photographs... The Bulgarians captured a fair few of the Greek ones and most / all of these had their cross guards altered for the regular Mannlicher rifle, the Greek Y 1903 having a higher muzzle ring and slightly different diameter Check out: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=209495&hl=greek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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