trenchtrotter Posted 22 April , 2015 Share Posted 22 April , 2015 Again got round to posting images. Comments welcome. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 22 April , 2015 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2015 3 MD 34383 RHS.........marked with Star with A inside twice, Y on ts side or is it a poor X SOS? Shield LHS marked with Shield 1915 Lithgow Top Of hilt C WD arrow 1 Bottom of hilt WD Arrow Blued blade....1920s? TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 22 April , 2015 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2015 Oh forgot 211 on pommel below release catch TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 22 April , 2015 Share Posted 22 April , 2015 Nice bayonet TT, I'd love a 1915 Lithgow. Have a drawer full of 1916s but nothing from the previous year ;-) Not sure about the pommel markings, but the cross guard marking shows that it was issued to the 3rd military district (Victoria) and from the number I'm guessing early 1916? I'm sure S>S will be along soon to confirm. I'm also guessing this bayonet was refurbished in the 1940s/ 1950s and new grips added/ blade blued. A cracking WW1 Aussie bayonet, thanks for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 22 April , 2015 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2015 The refurb makes sense. It came in a scabbard marked MA which I know is post WW1. The stud is round. How does one tell the grips are replacements please? It was bought years ago from a militaria shop in Birmingham for a £10 or so? I did not know or want a Aussie example and bought it in my ignorance as a WW1 British bayonet. I am not especially attched to it and would rather a lovely 1915 british one in a period scabbard, or indeed a 1916 one. Is the Lithgow 1915 more desirable and would I be doing myself out for a straight swap? I am not a bayonet man so my knowledge is limited? TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 22 April , 2015 Share Posted 22 April , 2015 A 1915 Lithgow (in my opinion and based on prices commanded) is far rarer and more valuable than the equivalent British 1915 P07. If I was still in the UK Id be happy to arrange a swap! I would probably suggest selling your bayonet and buying a British replacement - you should make a good margin on that (as long as the bayonet is available for Australian buyers). Re the grips, its just a sense I have based on the fact that the 10 or so Lithgows I own all have lighter coloured grips which are bashed and bruised, whereas yours are a darker wood and do not look to have suffered much damage at all. I've put up photos of most of my Lithgows on the thread "Australian bayonets" so you can see them there. Cheers, J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 22 April , 2015 Share Posted 22 April , 2015 On Lithgow markings - have you seen this handy little reference page? http://www.lawranceordnance.com/information/bayonets/australian/manufacturers_markings.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 22 April , 2015 Share Posted 22 April , 2015 I have a nice 1915 Lithgow MkIII that this would look spiffy on. The rifle too had a late 30s/WWII refurbish. I would happily send you a Brit 1907 in equal or better condition and pay postage both ways..... But to be honest you would be being ripped off at current prices as Jscott points out! Lithgow production was genuinely lower than most UK makers (so they are scarcer) and in the US at least there is a distinctly higher demand for Lithgow pieces (I think it is Gallipoli mythmaking/snobbery) so Lithgows command about a two fold or sometimes higher markup over British bayonets. The exception might be a rarer maker like MOLE or VICKERS where the prices are closer. A straight swap for a WWI Wilkinson would be a good deal for the whoever you swapped with! Prices on such things are odd. Anything marked Ishapore seems to be disdained by collectors as inferior (which it clearly is not) or common. In fact, surviving full length Ishapore bayonets are far less common than almost any other variants because the vast vast majority were shortened later in their service life. Has your bayonet had a false edge ground on the point? It appears so in the picture but I can't be sure on this little screen! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 22 April , 2015 Share Posted 22 April , 2015 Hello Chris, I have one of those 'ground false edge' Lithgow blades, I believe that it is a WW2 modification, and I was quite disappointed when it arrived in the mail as I believed it to be a standard WW1 model. I will have to find it as I have been ignoring it now for some time, sort of like a guest who has worn out his welcome. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 22 April , 2015 Share Posted 22 April , 2015 ... Lithgow production was genuinely lower than most UK makers (so they are scarcer) and in the US at least there is a distinctly higher demand for Lithgow pieces (I think it is Gallipoli mythmaking/snobbery) so Lithgows command about a two fold or sometimes higher markup over British bayonets. The exception might be a rarer maker like MOLE or VICKERS where the prices are closer. A straight swap for a WWI Wilkinson would be a good deal for the whoever you swapped with! Prices on such things are odd. Anything marked Ishapore seems to be disdained by collectors as inferior (which it clearly is not) or common. In fact, surviving full length Ishapore bayonets are far less common than almost any other variants because the vast vast majority were shortened later in their service life. Perceptive comments - thanks! Sometimes I think I should have got the Lithgow HQ that came my way, but... a happy home and some spare cash is always better in the longer run! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 22 April , 2015 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2015 If I knew what a false ground edge was?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 22 April , 2015 Share Posted 22 April , 2015 If I knew what a false ground edge was? As I understand it, a false edge is when the top (upper) part of the pointed end has been ground down to create a sharper angle with the point and the bottom (true edge) of the blade... Well, that's how I would describe it! Here you go - courtesy of: http://www.collectorssource.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/p/0/p07_false_edge_ba8876.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 22 April , 2015 Share Posted 22 April , 2015 As I understand it, a false edge is when the top (upper) part of the pointed end has been ground down to create a sharper angle with the point and the bottom (true edge) of the blade... Well, that's how I would describe it! Yes - it makes the point more "pointy" by putting a "false edge" along the tipmost 2-3 inches of the back of the blade. This modification was approved in 1944. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 22 April , 2015 Share Posted 22 April , 2015 As I understand it, a false edge is when the top (upper) part of the pointed end has been ground down to create a sharper angle with the point and the bottom (true edge) of the blade... Well, that's how I would describe it! Here you go - courtesy of: http://www.collectorssource.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/p/0/p07_false_edge_ba8876.jpg images.jpg Hello Julian and Chris, that's exactly what I meant, I think someone told me once that they are collectable in their own right, might have been on the forum, as I say I will have to find it and see if it has any military district markings etc. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 23 April , 2015 Author Share Posted 23 April , 2015 Thanks small for the replies. Some valuable info. From Trajans link re markings my example may be one of the USA made ones? Don't know if that is good news or not? I will have to consider my options re this now as I may sell to get a good 1915 pure WW1 tear drop stud scabbard example. Thinking cap on. TT Further to above I meant Brit 1915 example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 23 April , 2015 Share Posted 23 April , 2015 Thanks small for the replies. Some valuable info. From Trajans link re markings my example may be one of the USA made ones? ? ? Not if it says Lithgow and has a shield/star on it, it isn't! US made ones were produced by Remington and say so in a circle on the ricasso like the one on the left here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 24 April , 2015 Author Share Posted 24 April , 2015 InTrajans link to Lawrence ordnance above a c above WD arrow shows as being made in USA on licence by a company for Lithgow? Mine has these in the top of the handle between wood grips? Am confused now. TT See seventh post Trajans first and his link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 24 April , 2015 Author Share Posted 24 April , 2015 Ps I know it's not a m17 as above. I am referring to the meaning of C above WD arrow. Hope this clarifies. Well it is 0215 and I am at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 24 April , 2015 Share Posted 24 April , 2015 My understanding was Pratt and Whitney supplied the machinery (machine tools etc) to Lithgow when the factory was being established - and that they had also tendered bids for the contract to supply rifles before the Lithgow plant was established, but I was unaware of any bayonets carrying a Lithgow stamp that were produced in the US, if such do indeed exist I would suspect they would be scarce...but I would have thought they would pre date 1915 Happy to be corrected. Chris BTW not sure what you are referring to about M'17? the two bayonets in my picture are P1907s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 24 April , 2015 Author Share Posted 24 April , 2015 Thanks Chris. My mistake. Not paying proper attention. Still at work. Now 0334. I'm tired. Need prodding with one of these to wake me up. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 24 April , 2015 Share Posted 24 April , 2015 I will have to consider my options re this now as I may sell to get a good 1915 pure WW1 tear drop stud scabbard example. Thinking cap on. If it's just the scabbard you want I think I have a spare one - and possible access to more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 24 April , 2015 Author Share Posted 24 April , 2015 Good news I think. I have d examined it again and it has no false edge is blade is as it was in 1915 when made. Trajan will pm you re scabbard. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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