Plymouth History Posted 3 April , 2015 Share Posted 3 April , 2015 (edited) Good afternoon all, thanks for adding me to what is a magnificent site. I have a question which has a bearing on my family history research, but which I've thus far been unable to find the answer to. I was pointed in the direction of this site and hope that someone may know the answer. Could a soldier discharged in 1901 for misconduct after being convicted and imprisoned for 6 months for disobeying a lawful order and all service towards pension forfeited, still expect to be conscripted (into a different regiment) in 1916? Thanks AJ Edited 3 April , 2015 by Plymouth History Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 3 April , 2015 Share Posted 3 April , 2015 The rather blunt answer you may get is NO he could not be conscripted into a different regiment in 1915 because conscription didn't start until 1916. Having got past that point I'll get the ball rolling by suggesting his misdemeanors would have been ignored by the time of conscription. Interested to find out if he could have volunteered 1914-15 assuming he wasn't trying to take on a new ID. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouth History Posted 3 April , 2015 Author Share Posted 3 April , 2015 Ah - that's embarrassing. Knew that sorry. Edited now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 3 April , 2015 Share Posted 3 April , 2015 Welcome to the forum by the way. I'm sure others will be along to answer your query. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouth History Posted 3 April , 2015 Author Share Posted 3 April , 2015 Thanks TEW, much appreciated. It's about my GGF - same name on both records, just trying to "join" them up if I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 3 April , 2015 Share Posted 3 April , 2015 Who is the man you're looking at ? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouth History Posted 3 April , 2015 Author Share Posted 3 April , 2015 3/5472 Pte Charles Stevens D.C.L.I (1916-1919) from his marriage certificate and MIC, who is definitely my great grandfather (b.1877 in London). I'm thinking that he is the same man as 14990 Driver Charles Stevens A.S.C (1899-1901) as seen on the 1901 Census at Raglan Barracks, Plymouth. I have the service record for this Charles Stevens and he is the soldier dicharged for misconduct, but not for the man I definitely know is my GGF. Everything seems to add up from what I know, but obviously it's difficult to confirm. I wanted to know if it was possible for a man who had been discharged for disobeying an order to even be considered for further service, desperation for personnel notwithstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 3 April , 2015 Share Posted 3 April , 2015 14990 Driver Charles Stevens A.S.C. His mother is on THIS sheet as being Catherine?? 22 Dudley Rd Lambeth circa 1901 I assume you can't place 3/5472 Charles Stevens as being born in Battersea or in Aldershot in 1899. Is the findmypast record for 14990 Driver Charles Stevens the same as the ancestry record?? Not sure that 14990 Charles Stevens' record should still be in WO363 given that it covers 1899 to 1901. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouth History Posted 3 April , 2015 Author Share Posted 3 April , 2015 Hi TEW. That's the one. I'm not sure about FMP as my info is also from Ancestry. My Charles has previously given his place of birth as Bermondsey, Southwark, Lambeth (admittedly all a bit of a stretch from Battersea, with the possible exception of Lambeth) and London. Stevens really is an astonishingly common name in S.E London, so can't really pinpoint his birth. However he needs to have been in Plymouth at around the turn of the century as his eldest child was born in Plymouth in 1901. He also claimed to be married in 1901 - as does 14990 on the census (he didn't actually marry until 1919 - that's another story!). His children have actually been listed on another soldiers papers in error, 6131 Henry Stevens DCLI, then struck through. All very frustrating! Thanks. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 3 April , 2015 Share Posted 3 April , 2015 14990 Driver Charles Stevens A.S.C. His mother is on THIS sheet as being Catherine?? 22 Dudley Rd Lambeth circa 1901 I assume you can't place 3/5472 Charles Stevens as being born in Battersea or in Aldershot in 1899. Is the findmypast record for 14990 Driver Charles Stevens the same as the ancestry record?? Not sure that 14990 Charles Stevens' record should still be in WO363 given that it covers 1899 to 1901. TEW Two records on FMP for 14990 Stevens - one shows the middle name as Edward. Born late 1880. EDIT: Not sure where they get the Edward bit from as I can't see it anywhere obvious on the records. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouth History Posted 3 April , 2015 Author Share Posted 3 April , 2015 Thanks Craig. If you'd have said middle name Alfred, I would have been cartwheeling around the room. That's another spanner in the works now. I've been on the trail of my Charles for 20+ years and his life prior to 1901 is proving to be as elusive as ever. There is one interesting family story about him which I've never been able to confirm one way or another; during his WW1 service, he was allegedly tied to a gun carriage wheel and flogged. That he was flogged is not in question - my uncle clearly remembers seeing the scars on his back when he was by then an old man. Thing is, when was he flogged and by whom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 3 April , 2015 Share Posted 3 April , 2015 Craig, is his FMP record identical to the ancestry one?? One would think that 'Mother = Catherine Stevens, 22 Dudley Road, Lambeth' would make things easy but there doesn't seem to be such a road in Lambeth. Just to add another dimension, there are two Charles Stevens in Devonport Barracks on 1901 census. One born C1879, Lambeth and married. The other born C1882 Wandsworth, single. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouth History Posted 3 April , 2015 Author Share Posted 3 April , 2015 Thanks TEW. I've come across the Wandsworth one before and discounted him as a candidate - for the life of me I can't remember why! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 3 April , 2015 Share Posted 3 April , 2015 Craig, is his FMP record identical to the ancestry one?? TEW It appears so. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 3 April , 2015 Share Posted 3 April , 2015 It would appear that flogging in the British Army ceased in 1881. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnumbellum Posted 7 April , 2015 Share Posted 7 April , 2015 Could a soldier discharged in 1901 for misconduct after being convicted and imprisoned for 6 months for disobeying a lawful order and all service towards pension forfeited, still expect to be conscripted (into a different regiment) in 1916? As I understand the Military Service Act 1916, such a man, if of military age, would not have been exempted from military service on the ground.of a previous bad conduct military record. However, I would expect there to be some mention of previous service.on the WW1 record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 7 April , 2015 Share Posted 7 April , 2015 Charles seems to me to be trying to cover his tracks. I assume he eventually married Edith M Cross?? Very odd for his children with her to be listed on another man's sheet like that but at least you can confirm the children's births against the BMD records for Plymouth. Can't be certain but the children appear to be marrying in Lambeth later in life?? However, trying to find Edith or any of the children on the 1911 census is not so easy. Charles gives his mother's name as Catherine but it seems to mean nothing to the OP. The address for her doesn't seem to me to exist. He says he's married when he's not, he gives different places as his birth location. Has no history found so far prior to 1901. Smacks of someone who may have assumed an identity for whatever reason. Plymouth History - I assume after 20+ years of searching the baptisms for the children and/or the parish record for their wedding gives no further help. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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