Enlistment Attestation papers

[akduerden]

I have my grandfathers attestation papers and have some questions:

1. The witness signature is an 'Albert Finch' - see attached document. Would this be a chum of my grandfather or a recruitment office staff member?

2. If Albert Finch was his friend and they enlisted together would they have regimental numbers that were close together? My grandfather enlisted in the RFA.

3. One of the questions relate to a 'Notice' provided by an W.J.King - recruiting staff. Who would this be and what is a Notice?

4. The location is London. I know he was a Clerk at the Admiralty offices in Somerset House. Is it possible to find out where the recruitment offices in this location were?

Thanks in advance... Andrew

[tootrock]

I would suggest that Albert Finch was a clerk who filled in the details of the Attestation. The hand writing and his signature look very similar.

Martin

[kenf48]

1. As this was a quasi-legal document, a man was liable under military law if he made a false declaration unlikely therefore it was 'a chum'. I'd agree with the suggestion above.

2. Possibly, but Albert Finch was not his friend.

3. The 'notice' has been the subject of many queries on the forum, it's simply a form setting out the conditions of service and ensuring he knew what he was signing up for. In earlier times Recruiting Officers did not always make this clear to recruits.

4. In all probability the Central London Recruiting Depot Whitehall, though there were recruiting offices in Kingsway he had plenty of choice from Somerset House.

see

and for a photograph see 6 August on this blog https://greatwarlondon.wordpress.com/category/recruitment/

which also has more information on recruitment in London. It's possible he responded to a specific recruitment poster/campaign for the RFA. I'd favour the Central Recruiting Depot as the paperwork seems well organised and neat with rubber stamps etc. That was just my first impression of the form.

Ken

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

My grandfather's witness was a local magistrate.

The local newspaper described the recruitment session like this:

"The Chairman of the Urban Council (Mr.F.J.Matthews) attended as magistrate...."

I think the witness was usually someone of some official standing.

[kenf48]

My grandfather's witness was a local magistrate.

The local newspaper described the recruitment session like this:

"The Chairman of the Urban Council (Mr.F.J.Matthews) attended as magistrate...."

I think the witness was usually someone of some official standing.

The witness was simply witnessing the signature, the text in the box ‘Certificate of Magistrate or Attesting Officer’ explains the taking of the oath and verifying the declaration. To facilitate the raising of the 2nd Army Magistrates were directed to Drill Halls and other recruiting centres to take the oath as a matter of policy. This was often done in groups or ‘batches’.

In this example the Attesting Officer was the Approving Officer.

This series of three photographs from Getty Images shows the process at White City Recruiting Office December 1915, note the shared bibles.http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/search/2/image?phrase=world%20war%201%20recruits%20white%20city&family=editorial&sort=best&editorialproducts=&excludenudity=true&page=1

There are similar images in the IWM Collection though dating from 1917

This one shows the young men probably reading the ‘notice’ while the clerk fills out the form (Albert Finch?)

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205196436

and here taking the oath

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205196438

Ken

[akduerden]

Can anyone direct me to a post or website that describes the steps taken during enlistment?

Thanks Andrew

[CGM]

Andrew, you could start with this thread.

[kenf48]

Kitcheners Army and the Territorial Force Edgar Wallace free download

http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks14/1400171h.html#chap02

and Forgotten Books 'Raising and Training the New Armies'

http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Raising_and_Training_the_New_Armies_1000461196/5

though less concerned with the individual

For a more up to date approach is the important and readily accessible Peter Simkins 'Kitchener's Army' which has a chapter on the experience of enlistment, if not the process.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kitcheners-Army-Raising-Armies-1914/dp/1473821282/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427466319&sr=8-1&keywords=kitcheners+army

In fact the process was quite straightforward, although it varied as the war progressed but in 1914 all a man had to do was present himself at the local recruiting office/town hall/drill hall and volunteer. At this stage of the war in the UK large civic campaigns were conducted and local or colloquially 'Pals' Battalions raised as a reflection of civic pride.

As in most memoirs George Coppard describes the experience at the recruiting office briefly, "Towards the end of August (1914) I presented myself to the Recruiting Sergeant at Mitcham Road Barracks, Croydon. There was a steady stream of men, mostly working types, queueing up to enlist. The sergeant ask me my age and when I told him (sixteen) he said , 'Come back tomorrow and see if you're nineteen, eh?" So I turned up the next day and gave my age as nineteen. I attested in a batch of a dozen others and holding up my right hand swore to fight for King and Country. The sergeant winked as he gave me the King's Shilling plus one shilling and ninepence ration money for that day...Like a log thrown into a giant river I had only just started to move...Later that afternoon, looking definitely crummy and unwashed, our motley crowd of recruits shuffled up to East Croydon Station and took a train to Guild ford, final destination Stoughton Barracks."

Incidentally it seems there was a recruiting office at Somerset House (Anthony French 'Gone for a soldier' cited in 'Tommy' Richard Holmes) I have no further details.

Ken

[akduerden]

At the time of his enlistment he was living with his family in Harlesden. I presume if he recruited at a recruiting office in Harlesden the attestation papers would have a location different to London.

Andrew

[Kath]

Do any of the countless 'Notice' papers survive?

Kath.

[ss002d6252]

Do any of the countless 'Notice' papers survive?

Kath.

They're occasionally found in records, I keep meaning to save a copy but never remember.

Craig

[kenf48]

On 28/03/2015 at 19:26, Kath said:

Do any of the countless 'Notice' papers survive?

Kath.

See post 4 of this earlier thread

especially 'will fill up and give him the prescribed form" as the form was given to the soldier it's appearance in the records seems unlikely, though never say never!

Ken

[Kath]

Craig !!!

Pleeeeeese save one next time.

Thanks, Ken.

Kath.

[Kath]

Would the Notice in question 10 of the attestation paper in post #1 be the same as the Notice given to Derby Scheme Recruits?

On the front of Army Form B 2312A is this sentence:

NOTICE to be given to a MAN at the time of his offering to join the Army.

Kath.

[kevinrowlinson]

Would the Notice in question 10 of the attestation paper in post #1 be the same as the Notice given to Derby Scheme Recruits?

On the front of Army Form B 2312A is this sentence:

NOTICE to be given to a MAN at the time of his offering to join the Army.

Kath.

I do not know but cannot see why not.

I will attach one in two parts. I had reduced the res. to attach as one page but the print was near impossible to read. Found in one mans records, pity I haven't saved a better one I come across.

and bottom half

Kevin

[Kath]

Kevin,

Thank you, it's almost the same.

I will scan asap - my scanner is unavailable at present.

Kath.

[north staffs]

hi,

I was trying the ancestry.com offer out last night-last day of the offer, and found my grandfathers Territorial force enlistment paper it said 2449 Joseph Shaw Windsor enlistment date 28th April 1914 signed for four years, in 5th Btn. N.Staffs regt.. At the have you served before question there was " 5yrs served home ...... I could make out eppered after home the writing was scrawled. I remember as a child playing with a South Africa war medal with a Cape Colony bar, but to qualify you had to be there between 11/10/1899 to 31/5/1902.

The form was different to the examples shown above but I surpose that's because of the enlistment date 28/4/14 before war started...

[ss002d6252]

hi,

I was trying the ancestry.com offer out last night-last day of the offer, and found my grandfathers Territorial force enlistment paper it said 2449 Joseph Shaw Windsor enlistment date 28th April 1914 signed for four years, in 5th Btn. N.Staffs regt.. At the have you served before question there was " 5yrs served home ...... I could make out eppered after home the writing was scrawled. I remember as a child playing with a South Africa war medal with a Cape Colony bar, but to qualify you had to be there between 11/10/1899 to 31/5/1902.

The form was different to the examples shown above but I surpose that's because of the enlistment date 28/4/14 before war started...

That's correct - the Territorial Form was different to the war-time 'short service' form.

The Territorial Force didn't start until April 1908 so he was most likely either a regular soldier or a member of the volunteer force who voluntarily served overseas for the Boer War.

Craig

[north staffs]

hi,

thanks Craig, I just wished I could have made out the missing word, but with these old documents the letters are so fancy and written with a flourish.

thanks again regards,

[ss002d6252]

On 02/09/2015 at 03:30, north staffs said:

hi,

thanks Craig, I just wished I could have made out the missing word, but with these old documents the letters are so fancy and written with a flourish.

thanks again regards,

 

Craig