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Remembered Today:

Bayonets with a possible Gallipoli pedigree


trajan

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Thanks Mick,

Looks to be a nice piece - but I'll say no more until we have heard from SS who seems to have or have seen more Australian bayonets than the rest of us!

Trajan

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.. I'll say no more until we have heard from SS who seems to have or have seen more Australian bayonets than the rest of us!

Surprised SS hasn't picked up on this one yet! Perhaps you should send him a PM... I see nothing obviously wrong with the markings, and so this looks to be a 1914 Lithgow with its quillon still on and so a rare beast...

There is something more here - http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=224409 LF is another person who knows these better than me so hopefully he'll have a look.

I am confused, though, by the scabbard locket markings... I can see what might be 'M D' but as I understand it there should be a number before that; and what is confusing to this POF who freely confesses that he does not know the material at all well, then comes an asterisk before the 'serial' number...

Trajan

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here is another hookie i have just aquired,Chapman 1911 ,stamped 1md and ausie marking on pommel.

Mick

post-107689-0-23045600-1453742979_thumb.

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Here is another hookie i have just aquired,Chapman 1911 ,stamped 1md and ausie marking on pommel

Mick

Mick,

Your J. Chapman made 1907 Pattern Sword Bayonet with Hooked Quillon attached, was issued in November 1911, and has Australian pommel markings.

The ' Broad Arrow within a D ' is the Australian, Land Service mark, and the ' 1. M.D. ' is the Australian mark for the 1st Military District ( Northern Command, Queensland ).

9370, is the bayonet's serial number.

In all, a very nice bayonet.

Regards,

LF

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I think that's Queensland isn't it? But isn't that a high number for Queensland? Whatever, JMB would love the have the weight details!

Trajan

EDIT: LF's came in as I was writing - so Queensland it is! BUT, what date are those D/broad arrow marks on the pommel? I get the feeling there is quite some variety in these Aussie markings, with Military Districts being established early on before the GW, and yet there is no consistency, i.e., V for Victoria serial markings from the GW period, not MD markings for these... So, when did these D/broad arrow markings start to be used - bearing in mind HQ's are still around in the Antipodes in WW2.

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Mick

Thats an interesting one - I think the 1MD 9XXX marking looks about right. I have a few early Queensland marked 1907s with the sold out of service and "Q" markings, which would pre-date yours, and one 1912 Chapman with a 1MD14XXX number (from memory) which would be close to contemporaneous. I have previously posted photos of this bayonet - from memory in the "Australian Bayonets" thread started by S>S. The 1MD marking on my bayonet is on the cross guard, and the bayonet has a sold from service marking on the ricasso (which is an odd location). The odd thing about yours is the D marking. My understanding is that this was a later marking (although the short tail on yours makes it the first type of this later marking - the tail was later extended). Anyway, seems like the Queenslanders (and Australians in general) were pretty loose with their markings so there's probably a very good explanation. Lovely bayonet - thanks for sharing.

Jonathan


PS. Is there a sold out of service marking on the bayonet anywhere?

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The odd thing about yours is the D marking. My understanding is that this was a later marking (although the short tail on yours makes it the first type of this later marking - the tail was later extended).

Jonathan

Jonathan,

Here is an enlargement of the Australian, Land Service mark on the pommel of my Enfield made Pattern 1907 Sword Bayonet with the Hooked Quillon attached, which was issued in September 1911, and is shown in the previous post # 10.

It has no ' sold out of service ' mark.

Regards,

LF

post-63666-0-96391100-1453769860_thumb.j

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Here is another hookie i have just aquired,Chapman 1911 ,stamped 1md and ausie marking on pommel.

attachicon.gifCHAPMAN 1911 5.jpgattachicon.gifCHAPMAN HOOK 5.jpgattachicon.gifCHAPMAN HOOK 9.jpg

Another good example of a very late acceptance date/first issue mark compared to when it was probably made as well, with the blade being ER marked (for Edward VII, died May 1910) but the first date not being applied until 18 months later.

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Another good example of a very late acceptance date/first issue mark compared to when it was probably made as well, with the blade being ER marked (for Edward VII, died May 1910) but the first date not being applied until 18 months later.

Well spotted!

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Mick

Thats an interesting one - I think the 1MD 9XXX marking looks about right. I have a few early Queensland marked 1907s with the sold out of service and "Q" markings, which would pre-date yours, and one 1912 Chapman with a 1MD14XXX number (from memory) which would be close to contemporaneous. I have previously posted photos of this bayonet - from memory in the "Australian Bayonets" thread started by S>S. The 1MD marking on my bayonet is on the cross guard, and the bayonet has a sold from service marking on the ricasso (which is an odd location). The odd thing about yours is the D marking. My understanding is that this was a later marking (although the short tail on yours makes it the first type of this later marking - the tail was later extended). Anyway, seems like the Queenslanders (and Australians in general) were pretty loose with their markings so there's probably a very good explanation. Lovely bayonet - thanks for sharing.

Jonathan

PS. Is there a sold out of service marking on the bayonet anywhere?

Hi Jonathan

There is no sold out of service mark visible.

Cheers

Mick

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Mick,

Your J. Chapman made 1907 Pattern Sword Bayonet with Hooked Quillon attached, was issued in November 1911, and has Australian pommel markings.

The ' Broad Arrow within a D ' is the Australian, Land Service mark, and the ' 1. M.D. ' is the Australian mark for the 1st Military District ( Northern Command, Queensland ).

9370, is the bayonet's serial number.

In all, a very nice bayonet.

Regards,

LF

Thanks for all the great info LF.

Mick

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