kmad Posted 18 March , 2015 Share Posted 18 March , 2015 Hi all Up in attic again! I have a trio up for review All s98/05 Saw back from 1917 nice example , no makers name Saw back removed from 1916 , fichtel and Sachs schweinfurt And a saw back removed which I think May have been converted into a splitter as per carters book " the models,98/02 @ 98/05" I have a photo of the relevant page from carters book, I hope this is ok for forum use I can't make out makers name on the splitter bayonet but it is dated 1915 The adaptation was done a long time ago, cost me 20 euro in a junk shop, any taughts on this conversion, the locking mechanism is gone a long time as well Does anyone have a complete"splitter" for comparison All the best Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 18 March , 2015 Share Posted 18 March , 2015 'Swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning hooks' or reasonably close! Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmad Posted 18 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 18 March , 2015 Or as Ben franklin said Those that beat their swords into plowshares usually end up ploughing for those that didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loader Posted 18 March , 2015 Share Posted 18 March , 2015 Beat your swords into plowshares, when you hit a man with a plowshare, he's going to know he's been hit!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 19 March , 2015 Share Posted 19 March , 2015 Saw back from 1917 nice example , no makers name Saw back removed from 1916 , fichtel and Sachs schweinfurt And a saw back removed which I think May have been converted into a splitter as per carters book " the models,98/02 @ 98/05" Indeed a Splitter! Do the sawback-removed ones have an Abnahmenstempel in the removed part? The sawback - presumably it has the Abnahmenstempel on the pommel and spine? I have one example of a regulation issue S98/05, which likewise lacks a maker's name, but in my case also the Herrschermonogramm and year mark from the spine. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmad Posted 19 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 19 March , 2015 Sorry Ii do not understand Abnahmenstempel Does this mean the stamp with the crown and date If so yes this is present on the spine of all three Regards K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmad Posted 19 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 19 March , 2015 Close up of spines Saw back just a w and17 Saw removed cypher of king Ludwig III and 16 Splitter W 15 and something under it I can't make out Does this tell us anything.? Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 19 March , 2015 Share Posted 19 March , 2015 Ken, Am intrigued what 'the final chapter in the history of the Splitter' may be, just out of view in your photo of the book page? Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmad Posted 19 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 19 March , 2015 Hi Mike I will take a photo of the page when I get home,I will not ruin the surprise by telling you an abridged version If you are "into" Imperial german bayonets carters Books are great, I only have the one on the but I am on the look out for the remainder regards ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 19 March , 2015 Share Posted 19 March , 2015 Ii do not understand Abnahmenstempel Does this mean the stamp with the crown and date Yep, that the thing (although some references only apply the term Abnahmenstempel to the last bit, the initial of the 'auditor', the regulations from 1865 indicate that it originally applied to the whole stamp...) Close up of spines Saw back just a w and17 Saw removed cypher of king Ludwig III and 16 Splitter W 15 and something under it I can't make out Does this tell us anything.? Ken Thanks! Not a lot (as you will already know that W for Prussia and L for Bavaria) - except it looks like a 15 or a 16 on the splitter. Some sawback-removed jobs also have a crowned initial at the hilt-end of the removed part to certify that they are fit for duty again. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 19 March , 2015 Share Posted 19 March , 2015 carters Books are great, I only have the one on the but I am on the look out for the remainder ... They are indeed! Volume 1 on the 98/02 and 98/05 is fairly readily available - there is a hardback and a paperback version of that - but at a price... The other volumes are less easy to get hold off but do appear on the market, often in the US of A. It took me 3 years of frequent checking to get the full set of 4 (and cost a lot as well!). Naturally, just when I was down to finding the last one a full set appeared on ABE Books, and the net cost of that was slightly less than what I had paid overall. Watch out, though, for the reprinted versions of Carter's vol II, which are poorly reproduced making the photographs too dark. Another set that is worth having by German bayonet buffs are the volumes by Franz, but they are all in German and somewhat disorganised - and language apart, they are not so easy to use as Carter's. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 19 March , 2015 Share Posted 19 March , 2015 Ken, A friend has today loaned me a copy of 'German Sidearms and Bayonets 1740-1945' by Klaus Lubbe (2000). Page 225 has 2 examples of the Splitter pictured, one maker unknown, the other by 'Industriewerk Auhammer, Suhl'. Both have had the locking studs removed. I only have one German bayonet an M1898/05 in average condition, dated 1916 and made by F.D. Luneschloss of Solingen. Am envious of your examples. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 19 March , 2015 Share Posted 19 March , 2015 I only have one German bayonet an M1898/05 in average condition, dated 1916 and made by F.D. Luneschloss of Solingen. Am envious of your examples. I wouldn't be if you have an 'alter Arte' without a flashguard as they are not that common! If it's a 'neue Arte', which it almost certainly is, as its 1916, well, they are still nice and unusual, but many more are around... Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 19 March , 2015 Share Posted 19 March , 2015 Trajan, My M1898/05 has a flashguard so a 'neue Arte', oddly it came with a reproduction metal scabbard (U.S.A. origin?) and an original frog. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmad Posted 19 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 19 March , 2015 Here you go Mike The remaining story of the splitter saga WWII but we will probably get away with it being on topic, I have 2 aA 98/05 bayonets left in the attic, one with and one without saw, I will post up if anyone wants to see them. I have no transitional s98/05 but always on look out, the only other variation is a turked example Few more examples of other imperial bayonets which I will post up when time allows Regards to all Ken Trajan I did not think that aA were rare, good to know Mike can you post the images of the splitter from your mates book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 19 March , 2015 Share Posted 19 March , 2015 Ken, Many thanks for the image, that's recycling taken to a new level. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 20 March , 2015 Share Posted 20 March , 2015 My M1898/05 has a flashguard so a 'neue Arte', oddly it came with a reproduction metal scabbard (U.S.A. origin?) and an original frog. That IS odd! I have 2 aA 98/05 bayonets left in the attic, one with and one without saw, I will post up if anyone wants to see them. I have no transitional s98/05 but always on look out, the only other variation is a turked example Few more examples of other imperial bayonets which I will post up when time allows ... Trajan I did not think that aA were rare, good to know I for one am not averse to a wee bit of German bayonet porn, so happy to see other examples! Most of what comes my way in Turkey is n.A., and 98/05 WAFFENFABRIK MAUSER, but thanks to a GWF mate I have a couple of a.A. - and wouldn't mind a transitional! Yes, the a.A. are are much less common than the others. Statistics show that 98/05 production really took off in late 1915 (from 300,000 every 3 months to over 400,000, so as to replace all the Ersatz), and it was in July that year (according to one Bavarian document - Bayer. KA, FZM 2885) that 98/05 began to be made with flashguards and (probably) low ears, while in September the same year (as Carter indicates), those 98/05 already in service (along with any 98) began to be fitted with flashguards and lost their ears... In theory no 98/05 made after June 1915 would be without a flashguard, but the Bavarians often lagged behind the Prussians in ordering changes and so I would never say never! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 20 March , 2015 Share Posted 20 March , 2015 Ken, Illustration of Splitters from Klaus Lubbe's book 'German Sidearms and Bayonets 1740-1945'. 254 is unknown maker, 255 by 'Industriewerk Auhammer,Suhl'. Ooops, larger than I intended! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmad Posted 20 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 20 March , 2015 Hi Mike Thanks for that, I guess we will never know if my blade is from a splitter or not. If it is a splitter blade it must be one of the rarest of the 98/05 bayonet variations, Cheers Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 27 January , 2019 Share Posted 27 January , 2019 On 18/03/2015 at 22:56, MikeyH said: 'Swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning hooks' or reasonably close! Mike. Did you ever see this one in the IWM collections Mike? https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30000999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 27 January , 2019 Share Posted 27 January , 2019 Julian, Thanks for link, no that's a new one, and a saw back to boot. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 27 January , 2019 Share Posted 27 January , 2019 Does anybody know whether this thing actually worked on unrotted wood that was more substantial than balsa? Must say, looking at it leaves me very sceptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 27 January , 2019 Share Posted 27 January , 2019 Well, it was designed for cutting kindling wood, and so I guess it would have been adequate enough! Incidentally, the one firm known to have made these, "Industriewerk Auhammer Koch und Co.", was - according to Wiki - founded in 1919 by an ex-employee of the Bergmann company, where the Bergman SMG was developed, and this ex-employee then went on to produce his own SMG named for himself, a certain Herr H.Schmeisser... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 27 January , 2019 Share Posted 27 January , 2019 1 hour ago, trajan said: Well, it was designed for cutting kindling wood, and so I guess it would have been adequate enough! Hmmmm.... Looks more like it was designed to convince punters that it might, so as to dispose of huge surplus quantities of bayonets . Splitting wood along the grain into sticks is one thing, but cutting those sticks across the grain is another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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