Quartet of 84/98 bayonets

[kmad]

Hi all

House move progressing well

Got a few shots of the 84/98 bayonets I promised

None are regimentally marked

Date on them all is gone but have imperial markings on them all, except for bottom which is WWII issue

Taught you would like to see the 3 variations of WWI examples all the same

The saw back removed was the first one I got, probably a hard enough one to pick up but i got it all the same

Saw back took a long time to find but glad I got it while I could

Regards ken

[shippingsteel]

Nice to see your different variations. I believe the one with the serial numbers is closer to WW2, if you give me the code letter/s I can provide you the date.?

Cheers, S>S

[kmad]

Hi s/s

Yes the one with serial number (2039) is german WWII manafacturer code JWN which means it is french manafactured for german army, a rare enough variation but one I added to collection even though I do I dislike anything relating to the german forces of WWII

best regards

Ken

[shippingsteel]

Yes sorry Ken, I belatedly noticed you mentioned that fact of the WW2 issue in the OP. (Anyway, that code will be jwh and does indicate Manufacture Nationale, Chatelleraut)

Cheers, S>S

[trajan]

... Date on them all is gone but have imperial markings on them all, except for bottom which is WWII issue...

You have a nice set there! And although, like you, I don't collect the post-1918 examples (even if three have somehow slipped in along the way.. ), the French-made one is indeed a rarity and so nice to have as one of those odd exceptions to collecting themes!

You mention that the three WW1 ones have imperial markings - I assume on the pommel? As it is, and as I understand it, quite a few of the WW1 84/98's lack the Abnahmenstempel on the spine and so are undated, so that is not as unusual as it might seem at first. However, it seems that while the type was commissioned by November 1914, none were actually made before 1915, and apparently very few - if any - were made before March that year, so that's your earliest date for the three - but note also that your three are all n.A. versions with a flash-guard, which shows that (unless retro-fitted) they were made after 13 July 1915, when flash-guards were introduced... That aside, this late date for their production helps explain the lack of unit-markings as very few bayonets were in any case unit-marked after August 1914, and a complete halt to unit marking was ordered in November 1916.

Can we go any further? Well, unless I am mistaken, the peak year of production for these babies was 1917, thanks to an order of January that year that ordered these to be supplied to the various assault or Sturm battalions - which doesn't mean, of course, that all of them were used by these units!

As I understand it, Gottlieb and Gebruder Heller/Erfurt were certainly making these between 1915-1917, but as far as it is known not afterwards, so that gives you 1915-1917 for the production of these two. However, officially that sawback intact would have been taken out of front-line service soon after mid-October 1917, as was the one lacking its saw, which would have had this removed after January 1918.

I can't see the third one clearly but enough to identify it as a Henckels product. They only seem to have made this type of bayonet in 1916-1917, so that's the probable date for that.

All in all, a very nice grouping!

Trajan

PS: I bet you have been told that the marks on the blades are blood-stains? I think they are just areas of corrosion in poorly made carbon-steel...

PPS: What else have you got in that attic of yours???!!!