Pte. 44658 Thomas Williams

[GraemeClarke]

Hi

Another 'no show' I fear from the Walsall RoH

From the roll and Index card he is

Private 44658 Thomas Williams, 2/5th Battalion, Lincolnshire Regiment

Although the index card has a date of death of 10 may 1918, the 'Soldiers Effects' has a date of 15 April 1918

I also have from somewhere a form acknowledging receipt of 'a scroll'

The Medal Index Cards indicate service in the 52^nd Graduated Battalion, West Yorkshire Regiment with regimental number 94386 prior to transfer to the Lincolnshire Regiment

However I can find no trace in the records of the CWGC

Regards,

Graeme

[roughdiamond]

Looks like an error somewhere, this http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/867339/WILLIAMS,%20HAROLD%20JOHN is 265992 Pte John Harold Williams KIA 15/04/18 2/5th Lincolns. The Scroll acknowledgment reads to me as being for Pte "J" Williams not "T".

Did you find a MIC for 44658 Thomas Williams? I couldn't find one on Ancestry.

Sam

[GraemeClarke]

Hi Sam

Many thanks for having a look, the CWGC was interesting as his Dad is John but its not correct, I fear.

The Mic and roll are below

Regards,

Graeme

[ss002d6252]

SDGW for 265992 for reference

First name(s) HAROLD JOHN
Last name WILLIAMS
Service number 265992
Rank PRIVATE
Regiment Lincolnshire Regiment
Battalion 5th Battalion.
Birth place HAMMERSMITH, MIDDX.
Residence -
Enlistment place WANDSWORTH, SURREY

and medal roll details

Name: Harold John Williams
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Private
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: Lincolnshire Regiment
Regimental Number: 265992
Previous Units: 265992 1/4. Linc. R. Pte., 265992 2/5. Linc. R.

His soldiers effects record also shows as 265992.

Craig

[ss002d6252]

95A Pleck Road has a John Henry Williams resident in 1891 (Nephew of house holder) - aged 14, Would make him 41 in 1918.

Craig

[Bardess]

If you have a subscription to FMP you might have a look if he is on the GRO overseas deaths index

[roughdiamond]

Hi Sam

Many thanks for having a look, the CWGC was interesting as his Dad is John but its not correct, I fear.

Point I was making Graeme was that he is also Williams and his date of Death matches what's on the info you have, that's why I said "looks like an error somewhere", it could be the men were confused and one Williams DoD or paperwork confused with the other?

Also I still reckon the Scroll is to J Williams and the info in Craigs post #5 seems to coincide going by age and address though the house number is different.

Sam

[Bardess]

I disagree, Sam. The J is at the top of the letter [Mr J Williams] and the scroll is for Pte T Williams

[Bardess]

Just as an aside, it looks as though death was presumed in April 1920? I would present all you have to Terry Denham as is

[roughdiamond]

I disagree, Sam. The J is at the top of the letter [Mr J Williams] and the scroll is for Pte T Williams

Hi Diane

I'm going by the half cross bar to the left at the top and upward curve to the left at the bottom of the initial, I maybe wrong but that's how it reads to me.

Sam

[ss002d6252]

I think it's a 'J'

Craig

[ss002d6252]

A family called Cockayne were at 88 Pleck Road on the 1911 census.

Craig

[David_Underdown]

The London Electoral Regsiters may show residence post-1911 census (available via Ancestry the indexing has been done by OCR so can be very hit-and-miss, but you can browse the registers to loock for Pleck Road).

Not uncommon to write Ts like that at the time.

He may also apepar in the Surrey Recruitment Registers (transcriptions on FindMyPast).

[Bardess]

Do you have an update Graeme?

[GraemeClarke]

Hi

'Fraid not, hoping free FMP may have something over the week-end,

Regards,

Graeme

[PaulC78]

I've had a look at the pension records for Pte Thomas Williams 44658, as above these state that he was "missing" 15 April 1918. The ledger also notes that he was unmarried, NOK was his father John Williams of 2 Moat Road, Walsall, which is different to the scroll record. I also couldn't find his MIC on Ancestry - has it been mis-indexed? The transcribed record is on FMP. Can't seem to find him in the war deaths index though.

 

The other man Harold John Williams has a completely different set of records, and that fact that he was clearly married sets him apart from Thomas. Harold John Williams was born in Hammersmith in 1878, married to Lottie Franzisca Alice Jane Morley in 1916 and was an organ builder living at 1 Chalmont Road, Tooting. I don't see an obvious Walsall connection for him.