egbert Posted 21 February , 2015 Author Share Posted 21 February , 2015 Inside picture NOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 21 February , 2015 Share Posted 21 February , 2015 . The snow at HWK can be 3 meters high with temps up to minus 20-30 degrees centigrade. A working stove is a must for the off-sentry times. I concur with your comment. I have been there at -20° on the plain, -27° at la Schlucht, in snow. This is one of my glass slides. It's French, showing a trench on Hartmannswillerkopf in winter and it reveals the sort of conditions you mention (although the depth of the snow isn't clear in this slide). Zooming in, you can even see the snow on the soles of the men's boots. Diaries record that men's moustaches froze and memoirs recall that some men left the Vosges front lines on their hands and knees because they were unable to walk with frostbite. At times, the French couldn't light burners because the smoke would give away their locations. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 21 February , 2015 Share Posted 21 February , 2015 The interior shots are fascinating. I presume the wall decorations were found on HWK. As someone who had a genuinely inexplicable experience on Schratz I think I would find staying in these bunkers most unsettling. When we got lost in the trench system on HWK at dusk, it felt very charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 22 February , 2015 Author Share Posted 22 February , 2015 Gwyn better haunted by German sausage and warm than unbothered and frozen. Nice slide. Louis just sent me from neighboring Hilsenfirst a picture that shows clearly even more than 3m of snow. Indeed a very hostile area for 24/7 warfare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 22 February , 2015 Share Posted 22 February , 2015 That is an astonishing picture. Especially considering the conditions in which the photographer was taking it, its quality is stunning. Some modern cameras would fail at those temperatures and the amount of whiteness with the snow would challenge many amateur photographers now. It seems barely safe. Do you know anything about the frequency of accidents caused by using tunnels and shelters in deep snow conditions? Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 22 February , 2015 Author Share Posted 22 February , 2015 Gwyn I have read thousands of pages about the HWK but found no stories of avalanche or so related accidents. Likely too forested. Do you remember this Vosges video about the battlegrounds in moderate snow conditions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 22 February , 2015 Share Posted 22 February , 2015 Yes, just watched it again from your link. Fantastic film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roel22 Posted 23 February , 2015 Share Posted 23 February , 2015 The temps are constantly between 7-12 degrees C and guarantee the perfect beer temperature (184).JPG Egbert, fascinating as ever. Do you have any idea how deep those galleries are? Roel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 23 February , 2015 Author Share Posted 23 February , 2015 Thanks Roel, the underground gallery behind this particular bunker was not very long, maybe 30 meters. I recently explored underground galleries at HWK and adjacent Sudelkopf mountain that stretch for some100m with numerous side galleries and or parallel galleries. Others are 2-4 story level galleries and are interconnected with other underground fortresses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 23 February , 2015 Share Posted 23 February , 2015 Astonishing. Do plans exist of these galleries? How do you ensure that you don't lose your way in somewhere so complex? (For the avoidance of doubt, I am not planning to try it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 23 February , 2015 Author Share Posted 23 February , 2015 Astonishing. Do plans exist of these galleries? How do you ensure that you don't lose your way in somewhere so complex? (For the avoidance of doubt, I am not planning to try it.) Gwyn, yes plans exist of some. I think I have posted one or two plans from my Northern slope climb up HWK. I envisaged to post more on the respective HWK thread but as you know the response to the thread was not overwhelming and does not warrant the continuing effort. so the other 500 images stay put on my laptop. I always felt comfortable inside the galleries until my last trip to Sudelkopf, where I almost did not find the exit anymore due to the debris,side-galleries and the darn maze-style construction that looked all the same...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 23 February , 2015 Author Share Posted 23 February , 2015 I think it was this Stützpunkt were I got lost underground. It almost was my free chosen bunker-living last summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 23 February , 2015 Author Share Posted 23 February , 2015 Note the whiteish cloud/condensation that almost ruins the images: I discovered that phenomena when returning home. The outside temp was some 28 degrees centigrade while the underground temp was some 7 degrees. My modern day camera could not cope with its own temperature difference; the warm temp from my hands and that of the camera itself created evaporation clouds. This ought to be my bunker living niche gallery- I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 23 February , 2015 Share Posted 23 February , 2015 You have far more courage than I would have (but I am claustrophobic anyway). It's a shame if your wonderful image collection won't be shared. However, I do understand you questioning whether it's worth the effort of editing images, which is very time-consuming. Part of me thinks, "Why should people be interested? The area has no personal or family connection for most British visitors." Part of me is disappointed that some people have a lack of curiosity about other places where the war was fought. I think many people just look, click and move on, perhaps not realising that a little word showing interest would be very encouraging. Yet already elsewhere on the forum people are looking ahead to Verdun's centenary, which isn't British either, as if the events which happened elsewhere in north eastern France a hundred years ago in 1915 have no connection with the evolving story towards what the French did in 1916. My main driver is being enthusiastic about where I've been and hoping to share some of the things I've found and seen. It gets very dispiriting when people aren't interested. Re your picture above: are those pieces of wood or metal, and what have they been? Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 23 February , 2015 Author Share Posted 23 February , 2015 You have far more courage than I would have (but I am claustrophobic anyway). It's a shame if your wonderful image collection won't be shared. However, I do understand you questioning whether it's worth the effort of editing images, which is very time-consuming. Part of me thinks, "Why should people be interested? The area has no personal or family connection for most British visitors." Part of me is disappointed that some people have a lack of curiosity about other places where the war was fought. I think many people just look, click and move on, perhaps not realising that a little word showing interest would be very encouraging. Yet already elsewhere on the forum people are looking ahead to Verdun's centenary, which isn't British either, as if the events which happened elsewhere in north eastern France a hundred years ago in 1915 have no connection with the evolving story towards what the French did in 1916. My main driver is being enthusiastic about where I've been and hoping to share some of the things I've found and seen. It gets very dispiriting when people aren't interested. Re your picture above: are those pieces of wood or metal, and what have they been? Gwyn Gwyn, very well said, exactly your thoughts are mine! Re the picture: this is all original old wood paneling but badly damaged by water seepage. It suppose to look like the paneling from the earlier posted Dora fortress lunch picture. The image was taken from main gallery towards one of the many niches left and right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartH Posted 23 February , 2015 Share Posted 23 February , 2015 Great pictures! More please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 23 February , 2015 Share Posted 23 February , 2015 I bet this man would have appreciated the shelter. (One of my glass slides of the Vosges, reduced & compressed.) Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Posted 23 February , 2015 Share Posted 23 February , 2015 Hi, There was a good book (in French) with many photos of the Vosges battlefields, I bought it a long time ago but I can't find it anymore... too many books ! From what I remember it had a blue cover. I am sure that the experts here know what book I am talking about ! Sly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 23 February , 2015 Share Posted 23 February , 2015 Well I am interested in anyone's trips be they Somme or Vosges. In fact better new areas to inspire me than reading trips on areas I am familiar with. I relish these threads and it was one of Slys excellent threads on the French sector of the Somme that took me places few Brits go even though equally fascinating, much to see and no more tha 30 mins from Albert etc. So Egbert and co keep these posts rolling. TT PS thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk1418 Posted 29 December , 2019 Share Posted 29 December , 2019 On 18.2.2015 at 13:04, egbert said: Bei meiner letzten Recherche in den Vogesen (-krieg) zeigte mir mein französischer Freund ein außergewöhnliches Beispiel für Zeitgeschichte aus den 1916er Jahren. In der Nähe des Hartmannsweilerkopfs (HWK) wurde ich gefragt, ob ich etwas Besonderes sehen möchte. Was mir gezeigt wurde, sah aus wie ein Jagdschloss mitten im Wald. Eigentlich war es ein ehemals stark betoniertes Vorderhaus eines tief gebohrten Galeriesystems in den Berg. In der Tat hat ein Freund den ehemaligen deutschen Bunker, der für jeden Touristen unzugänglich ist, in "sein" Vogesen-Jagdschloss verwandelt. Sommer 2014, Bunker mit allen "Annehmlichkeiten" wie Herd, Fenster, Wasseraufnahmesystem, natürlichem Kühlschrank usw Schade das Louis so krank ist und nicht mehr so unterwegs ist wie man in kennt. Dieser Unterstand befindet sich am Sudelkopf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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