Royal Automobile Club driver(?) c.1917 - any ideas?

[headgardener]

I originally posted this thread under the title "Photo ID - mystery cap-badge & arm-badge", but thanks to Sepoy post #2) it is a mystery no longer. Turns out that he is a member of the Royal Automobile Club (aka the 'RAC') dating from about 1917.

The question is - what does his uniform tell us? Is he an RAC 'Gentleman Driver' attached to the army (as per the link posted by Dave in post #5) or is he simply an employee or official of the RAC wearing a normal RAC uniform? The Sam Browne and general military feel of the uniform makes me think that he may be a 'Gentleman Driver' and that his uniform is designed to indicate that he is something akin to an officer without him actually being an officer.

I'd be grateful for any further thoughts on this.......

I'm generally pretty good with regimental badges and the like, but despite checking various sources I've drawn a complete blank on this one.

The rather fine-looking gentleman in question (complete with monocle) appears to be wearing a cap-badge that is slightly obscured by one of two straps above the peak of his SD cap. The body of the badge appears to be a circular device surmounted by a crown, and with something extending out from the bottom of the badge at about 5 O'Clock and 7 O'Clock. The badge appears to match a device worn on his L upper-arm.

He appears to be wearing an SD tunic, but without any pips on his epaulette. It's possible that he may not be wearing any cuff-rank either, but it is simply too difficult to tell as the cuffs are obscured.

The tunic and Sam Browne look right for regular SD. It doesn't look right for VTC, and if he was wartime VF then he'd be wearing a GS cap-badge. The double-strap on his cap also looks odd.

I'm wondering whether it's some form of civilian volunteer uniform, or maybe a school OTC - but it doesn't look like a school crest. Maybe the local regional TF body, or something similar? Or a school of instruction of some kind?

The reverse of the card looks right for about 1916-19. There are no annotations on either front or back beyond a smudged stamp on the reverse which reveals that it was taken by photographer in Hull:

[Sepoy]

I wonder whether he is a member of the Royal Automobile Club???

Sepoy

[FROGSMILE]

I'm generally pretty good with regimental badges and the like, but despite checking various sources I've drawn a complete blank on this one.

The rather fine-looking gentleman in question (complete with monocle) appears to be wearing a cap-badge that is slightly obscured by one of two straps above the peak of his SD cap. The body of the badge appears to be a circular device surmounted by a crown, and with something extending out from the bottom of the badge at about 5 O'Clock and 7 O'Clock. The badge appears to match a device worn on his L upper-arm.

He appears to be wearing an SD tunic, but without any pips on his epaulette. It's possible that he may not be wearing any cuff-rank either, but it is simply too difficult to tell as the cuffs are obscured.

The tunic and Sam Browne look right for regular SD. It doesn't look right for VTC, and if he was wartime VF then he'd be wearing a GS cap-badge. Thew double-strap on his cap also looks odd.

one.jpg

I'm wondering whether it's some form of civilian volunteer uniform, or maybe a school OTC - but it doesn't look like a school crest. Maybe the local regional TF body, or something similar? Or a school of instruction of some kind?

The reverse of the card looks right for about 1916-19. There are no annotations on either front or back beyond a smudged stamp on the reverse which reveals that it was taken by photographer in Hull:

two.jpg

Does anyone have any idea about the unit or organization that he belonged to....?

Many thanks!

I agree that it is a puzzle.

An arm badge, per se, usually implies a Yeomanry regiment, but such badges were usually only worn by NCOs and WOs.

The badge is also a little reminiscent of the 3rd County of London Yeomanry (Sharpshooters), but the form is not quite right.

I am left with the feeling that if British, it is either, a very obscure auxiliary unit, or maybe an OTC. Alternatively it could perhaps be a unit from one of the Dominions.

The absence of collar insignia and badges of rank (neither cuff nor shoulder strap), as well as the round cornered and stiff collar of his shirt are also unusual.

He seems likely to be a Warrant Officer (and the unit's sergeant major) with his badge of rank just out of sight.

[headgardener]

Sepoy, Frogsmile - many thanks for your comments.....

I wonder whether he is a member of the Royal Automobile Club???

Amazing! You've cracked it......! I just found an image online of an RAC members badge from 1917 and it looks exactly the same! At work atm, will copy and paste in a short while.

[HERITAGE PLUS]

Background here:

http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/great-war-people/brothers-arms/358-rac-1914.html

Dave

[FROGSMILE]

Well done Sepoy, what a great spot!

I wonder how the ranking worked.

[headgardener]

Sepoy - well done that man...!

Frogsmile and Dave - thank you both for your interest, and for the link regarding the RAC during WW1.

I'd say that it's definitely a variant of this badge (taken from THIS webpage), and the date (1917) matches my estimated date in post #1 (1916-19). The question is whether he was simply a uniformed employee or official of the RAC, or whether he was a 'gentleman driver' attached to the army (hence the quasi-military uniform). It's an interesting one because the uniform (especially the Sam Browne - plus the man's demenour) say 'military', yet the smaller details appeared to say otherwise.

I think I might re-title the thread to see if it attracts the interest of someone with specialist knowledge of the RAC during WW1.

[headgardener]

I wonder whether he is a member of the Royal Automobile Club???

Background here:

http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/great-war-people/brothers-arms/358-rac-1914.html

Well done Sepoy, what a great spot!

I wonder how the ranking worked.

Thank you all for your input so far...! I've re-titled the thread in order to attract the attention of anyone with knowledge of the RAC. Like Frogsmile, I'd love to know what sort of rank this man was. The uniform is so clearly military, right down to the Sam Browne, and as a result it looks different to that of pretty much any civilian unit that I've ever come across - except for members of civilian units that were employed in a military context (such as BRCS, Salvation Army, etc). He also looks very much like an officer (in a similar way to the 'officers' in civilian medical or welfare units, such as the BRCS or the SA), so that makes me wonder whether he was a 'Gentleman Driver' or something similar, with his arm badge as an indication of his non-military status.

[Grovetown]

Paraphrasing from Michael Young's Army Service Corps 1902-1918:

Shortly after mobilisation was ordered the RAC, AA and Motor Union had undertaken to provide the services of private gentlemen, members of their associations, to place themselves at the disposal of the War Office for permanent duty in (home - my parenthesis) commands. While on such service the gentlemen received board and lodgings, free issue of petrol and running expenses.

Also: along with volunteer drivers from the Hire Dept. of Wolseley, the RAC (along with the National Society of Chauffeurs) provided the first complement of drivers on the formation of the No. 1 Motor Ambulance Convoy (built by Wolseley). No. 2 MAC was similarly manned by RAC member and MP Arthur du Cros and his associates, albeit as enlistees into the ASC.

Also: why 1917? The Edward VII badge was adopted in 1907...

Cheers,

GT.

[Whalebone]

Not wanting to put a spanner in the works;

Major AJ Atkinson

Army Service Corps (MT) (Volunteers) Hull.

[Sepoy]

Not wanting to put a spanner in the works;

Major AJ Atkinson

Army Service Corps (MT) (Volunteers) Hull.

Sorry Whalebone, but the insignia is certainly not the Army Service Corps.

Members of the Royal Automobile Club served under the "RAC" banner in France/Flanders and even received 1914 Stars. Some years ago, when I was a very keen collector of 1914 Stars and 1914 Star trios, I missed two RAC 1914 Star groups, within a couple of weeks, much to my considerable annoyance.

Sepoy

[Whalebone]

They never wore the insignia of the 'Army Service Corps' as they had formed before acceptance and designed their own badge and uniform, as nothing was provided by the Army Council.

It was formed as the East Yorkshire Motor Volunteer Corps in May 1917 and not changed until July 1918 to the Army Service Corps(MT)(V) and Subsequently Royal Army Service Corps(MT)(V). On the disbandment of the Volunteers the RASC(MT)(V) was retained.

[headgardener]

Paraphrasing from Michael Young's Army Service Corps 1902-1918:

Shortly after mobilisation was ordered the RAC, AA and Motor Union had undertaken to provide the services of private gentlemen, members of their associations, to place themselves at the disposal of the War Office for permanent duty in (home - my parenthesis) commands. While on such service the gentlemen received board and lodgings, free issue of petrol and running expenses.

Also: along with volunteer drivers from the Hire Dept. of Wolseley, the RAC (along with the National Society of Chauffeurs) provided the first complement of drivers on the formation of the No. 1 Motor Ambulance Convoy (built by Wolseley). No. 2 MAC was similarly manned by RAC member and MP Arthur du Cros and his associates, albeit as enlistees into the ASC.

Also: why 1917? The Edward VII badge was adopted in 1907...

GT - thanks for posting that extract. Why 1917...? I thought that the badge had been introduced in 1917, but clearly that appears to be incorrect. I'd say that the bi-lingual reverse of the card does match the dates that I initially set out (1916-19). It's an imprecise science, of course, but it looks right for that era - cards dating from earlier tend to have a different look to them, particularly those from the Edwardian era. Similarly, once we get into the 1920's the graphic style tends to change.

Not wanting to put a spanner in the works;

Major AJ Atkinson

Army Service Corps (MT) (Volunteers) Hull.

Whalebone - thanks very much for posting those details regarding the Motor Volunteers. I'd never heard of them before. Having done a bit of background reading (i.e. Google....) I get the impression that they were formed in 1915 as part of the VTC. There appear to have been Volunteer Motor Corps throughout the UK, which were brought under direct control of the army in 1917 (along with the rest of of the VTC, I think?). In this particular instance, the man in the photo (post #1) is definitely wearing an RAC badge, so I'm inclined to think that he is RAC rather than being a Motor Volunteer. I found a photo on GWF of a Motor Volunteer driver wearing VTC-style SD with a large wheel as a cap badge. I guess that may have been only one particular regional variation, though (the thread is HERE, btw)

Incidentally, I found that the National Portrait Gallery has a photo of Major Arthur Joseph Atkinson (taken in 1930):

I doubt that it's the same guy.

Members of the Royal Automobile Club served under the "RAC" banner in France/Flanders and even received 1914 Stars. Some years ago, when I was a very keen collector of 1914 Stars and 1914 Star trios, I missed two RAC 1914 Star groups, within a couple of weeks, much to my considerable annoyance.

Sepoy - I've been out of the medal market for many years, but I always remember RAC groups commanding a very high price.

I'll try e-mailing the RAC to see if they have an archivist. I looked online for images of RAC uniforms, but the only ones I found look much more like Police rather than military, which makes me think that the man in post #1 is a 'Gentleman Driver' employed by the army.

I'd still welcome any further thoughts or advice on these points.....!

[Ambman]

Good Evening

 

The Royal Automobile Club Had 2 levels of membership Full Members Had the use of the Club in Pall Mall and The Country Club and the Patrols

Associate Members had the use of the Road Services of the patrols.

 

Michael Homer Ex Inspector Royal Automobile Club