JMB1943 Posted 2 February , 2015 Share Posted 2 February , 2015 I have read that the long range sights (dial front & aperture rear) were introduced with the Lee Enfield Magazine Rifle, Mk.1 in 1895. Were these of Enfield design or copied from a foreign rifle ? Also, were they subsequently adopted by foreign manufacturers ? Were there alternate methods of long range sighting available ? Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 2 February , 2015 Share Posted 2 February , 2015 I have read that the long range sights (dial front & aperture rear) were introduced with the Lee Enfield Magazine Rifle, Mk.1 in 1895. JMB, They were fitted to the 1895 Magazine Lee-Enfield Rifle Mk I, which was approved 11/11/1895 and manufactured from 1895. However, they appeared a little earlier on an Enfield 1888 Trials Rifle, and were then also fitted to Magazine Lee-Metford Rifle Mk I approved on 22/21/1888 and manufactured from 1889. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 3 February , 2015 Share Posted 3 February , 2015 Yep. My bullet damaged Lee Metford MkII dated 1892 still has it's long range sight. - As far as I know they are peculiar to the British Army. - SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerhunter Posted 3 February , 2015 Share Posted 3 February , 2015 They are not really "long range" sights but rather for volley fire - which is done at long ranges. The idea is to create a "beaten zone" by firing multiple rifles. This effect is done much more effectively by a Vickers Machine Gun and so the volley sights became obsolete and were deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N White Posted 3 February , 2015 Share Posted 3 February , 2015 While the aperture rear is nice, volley sights were a bit of a fad in the late 1800s, and several countries adoped rifles with them. Please enjoy below quick and dirty pics of two, an 1886 Mannlicher (11.15x58) and a Swede 1867/89 Rolling Block (8x58R). Both of these are set up in a similar manner, with a front post as part of the mid barrel band, and a notch attached to the rear sight. In the case of the Mannlicher, the volley notch slides out sideways when needed, and the long range graduations are on the right side of the sight ramp, with regular distances on the left. The Swede is simpler, with the notch part of the slider, and the ladder graduated on the rear for long range. I would guess the Enfield style would be easier to use, at the cost of added complexity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 3 February , 2015 Share Posted 3 February , 2015 Couple of photos of my 1901 MLE just in case anyone is not clear on the subject. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 4 February , 2015 Author Share Posted 4 February , 2015 Thanks to all for the info. Gunner Bailey & N White---your photos add greatly to the discussion ! With regard to Beerhunter's comment that the long-range sights were made obsolete by the introduction of machine guns, when were they retired from the Mannlicher & Swedish Rolling Block examples ? Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N White Posted 4 February , 2015 Share Posted 4 February , 2015 They never were. The Rolling Block was a rebarrel and update of the black powder versions in 1889. Mine was actually converted in 1896. It was soon superseded by the swede mauser. (Model 1896) The Mannlicher, I am not sure which model was last to have volley sights, but the model 1895 (just nine years and several iterations later) lacked them. Enfields are a little weird in that the British kept using them when many who transitioned from the blackpowder or semi smokeless era just went to new designs. US Krag to 1903, Gew88 to Gew98, Greeks from Gras to Mannlicher 1903, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alain dubois Posted 5 February , 2016 Share Posted 5 February , 2016 Hello,Lee-metford rifles on this picture published this week by French National Libraryhttp://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b53115712g/f1.item.zoomI was looking about a close view of the long-range sight.Best regardsAlain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 5 February , 2016 Share Posted 5 February , 2016 http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b53115712g/f1.item.zoom Thanks! Great photograph! Lovely shot of the sentry and his P.1888 Mk 2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 5 February , 2016 Share Posted 5 February , 2016 While the aperture rear is nice, volley sights were a bit of a fad in the late 1800s, and several countries adoped rifles with them. ... I'd agree quite strongly with that. When you consider the angle of bullet descent at around 2500 yards, the shortness of the resulting Beaten Zone, the multiplication of tolerances over such distances, the unavailability of precision rangefinders to rifle-armed units, and the further changes in relative position of woodwork-mounted sighting elements over time spent in conditions of widely varying temperature and humidity - it gets hard to believe that an enemy engaged with Volley Sights would actually even be aware that they were taken under fire, other than in exceptional circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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