P '07 Bayonet Grips---nuts & bolts

[JMB1943]

I have just been reading the "Australian Bayonets" thread that was started in July '13 and was locked a couple of days ago.

Several of the posts caught my eye, and prompt me to post this thread (NOT re Australian Bayonets).

1) One post refers to the nuts/bolts as having been replaced incorrectly when the grips were re-assembled to the bayonet. A photo of the guilty bayonet (post #18) shows the nuts on the same ricasso side as the "X" blade bend acceptance.

Q: was the bolt-heads to be on the same side as the ricasso bearing the "X" a War Office spec., or is it a result of viewing hundreds of bayonets ?

2) Another post (#91) shows a supposed 1912 bayonet; to me, the month is clearly "2" but the year is not obvious to me as "12". Certainly " '1" but the second digit looks like an inverted "5".

Q: any comments ?

3) I have assembled a 1916 SMLE Mk. III*/ 1916 Wilkinson bayonet/ black, tear-drop scabbard (not dated or otherwise stamped) that would be recognizable to my grandfather (F&F, 1915-19) . This latter (scabbard, not granddad) has some remains of tan paint on the locket (N. Africa camo. ?) and also rather more pea-green paint (British Home Guard, WWII ?) on the chape (thanks to Skennerton's little booklet for the correct nomenclature !!!).

Q: remove the paint to make it authentic GW, or leave as-is to preserve the history ?

3) I have read that the black leather scabbards were originally waxed. I have currently applied four coats of a beeswax/linseed oil mixture and have a very flat finish. Both the rifle & the bayonet have been well-used, and I'm not looking for a patent leather look for the scabbard.

Q: is it known whether the finish, as originally issued, would have been of a high gloss or of a matte, low gloss type ? What do the bayonet/scabbard aficionados here aim for ?

4) I have not yet assembled the bayonet to the scabbard, but I assume that the blade can be inserted with either side "up". However, the bayonet is not symmetrical, so.....

Q: should the bayonet lug hole on the cross-guard be to LHS or RHS when looking at the tear-drop with the scabbard held vertically ?

Regards,

JMB

[4thGordons]

I'll let others with more expertise speak to the bayonet issues

But about the paint: Painting of rifles (and by extension it appears the metal on bayonets and scabbards) was approved as a wartime rust prevention measure during WWII for all theatres. Pre war, all rifles would have been disassembled annually and the metal covered by the rifle furniture would have been inspected and greased to prevent corrosion. Painting was approved so this was not required. Various colours were used (the colour of the paint was not specified), whilst sellers will often claim Khaki = desert, Green = Jungle/Europe/Homeguard so by extension this was a {insert your favourite elite unit/interesting operation here to increase the value} weapon, I do not believe there is any basis for this. The only consistent pattern I have observed in this paint is that Indian service rifles often have the pea green colour.

For me I would leave the paint as part of the history of the equipment, but to each his own.

Chris

[shippingsteel]

1) Q: was the bolt-heads to be on the same side as the ricasso bearing the "X" a War Office spec., or is it a result of viewing hundreds of bayonets ?

The original manufacturers specifications were provided in the List of Changes, and this shows the correct positioning of the bolts. Boltheads to the RHS with the Nuts to the LHS.

2) Q:Another post (#91) shows a supposed 1912 bayonet; to me, the month is clearly "2" but the year is not obvious to me as "12". Any comments ?

The year of manufacture of that particular hookie is certainly 1912, but the year date is only showing a partial marking. So it was struck with a worn out stamp.

3) Q: remove the paint to make it authentic GW, or leave as-is to preserve the history ?

Depends if you want it to look as it would have during the GW, and to match your rifle etc. For the GW period look I would remove the paint. It is simple to do.

3) Q: is it known whether the finish, as originally issued, would have been of a high gloss or of a matte, low gloss type ? What do the bayonet/scabbard aficionados here aim for ?

The original finish would not have been overly shiny, the wax treatment of scabbards was a post-war innovation. And the first scabbards were made of brown leather.

4) Q: should the bayonet lug hole on the cross-guard be to LHS or RHS when looking at the tear-drop with the scabbard held vertically ?

When placed into the scabbard the muzzle-ring of the bayonet should be to the LHS of the scabbard throat. Meaning the press stud will be facing towards the body.

[trajan]

... Various colours were used (the colour of the paint was not specified), whilst sellers will often claim Khaki = desert, Green = Jungle/Europe/Homeguard so by extension this was a {insert your favourite elite unit/interesting operation here to increase the value} weapon, I do not believe there is any basis for this.

Just for general information, in my experience quite a few WWII period P.1907-type scabbards had their metal bits painted black. That said, most of the ones like this that I have seen on sale seem to be coming out of Cyprus and so that might just be a regional touch.

Trajan