kings royal rifles help please

[notnil]

Hello new to the forum and am after some help if possible.

I have started to look in to my family history for any Person who had served in the forces.

I have recently come across a rifleman George Linton who died in France on the 11/10/1918 his Service no was A/205598 and he was fighting with the 2nd batt K.R.Rif.C, I have records that George was affiliated from 13th batt county of london regiment, also records saying he was posted to 1st/13th Kensington Bn London Regt

George was formally with the royal army service corps with a service no of S/4/ 143938 before transferring to the rifles.

George was born in Lewisham and enlisted in Bournemouth which I have a record for off ancestry. I also have information of the war graves commission that when he died in 1918,he was husband of m Linton of malmesbury road Bournemouth

The problem I have with all this information is, that I am trying to tie this information to a George Linton that I have in my family history.

My George Linton was born in Lewisham and lived in Bournemouth in the 1911 census.Also the census adress in 1911 was only 1.1 miles from the adress off the war grave commission, George wife was called Mary, so that ties in with the war graves commission.

My George was born in 1876 so when / if he served in france in 1918 , he would have been at least 41/42 when he died.

I am pretty certain the rifles George is the same as my George Linton, as all the evidence is pretty close.

I cannot find any medal index cards or service records for rifles George, so have no way of proving tha age or date of birth of rifles George, therefore, definitely connecting them together.

If anybody has any more information or pointers to try and establish the link it would be very much appreciated, then I can proudly link another military man to my family.

Thanks you all for taking the time and effort to read this long post.

Many thanks ( fingers crossed) Mark

[Phil Evans]

Hello Mark and welcome to thew Forum.

The only George Linton that I can see on CWGC that died on that date has a service number of A/202114.

Details here.

I assume that this is your man.

His medal index card is on Ancestry here.

Phil

[johnboy]

202114 2 KRRC transferred to 2/11 London Regiment. No dates given. The 6 digit service number was probably issued early 1917.

[notnil]

Thanks for reply Phil

That's the correct service no A/202114 , don't know what got in my head putting that other number in :-(

Thanks for MIC couldn't find that. Got all the other cwgc information. All information points to my man just need to try get DOB or age , hoping someone somewhere got a little snippet. Just seems, to me anyway,my George age is too old.

Thank you again Mark

[kenf48]

He left a will, though I guess that will be to his wife

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Wills?surname=Linton&yearOfDeath=1918&page=1&sort=Surname&sortDir=ASC&advancedSearch=False&isGrantSearch=False#soldiers

and although wartime death certificates are sparse it may show his date of birth you can order online http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

Age 40 in 1916 he would have come within the terms of the Military Service Act which extended the age to 50 in 1918. Equally he could have volunteered prior to conscription though that seems less likely, the Derby Scheme is a possibility. By October 1918 many more men were being sent on active service overseas as losses mounted, especially after the losses of March when tens of thousands were taken prisoner. The war diary may indicate drafts/transfers

Ken

EDIT Sorry just noticed you are new, welcome but have look at the parent site the LLT for details of the Military Service Act and Derby Scheme

http://www.1914-1918.net/derbyscheme.html

[johnboy]

2/9th (County of London) Battalion (Queen Victoria's Rifles)
Formed in London in August 1914. Moved in November to Crowborough where placed under orders of 2/2nd London Brigade in 2/1st London Division.
Moved to Ipswich in June 1915 and formation retitled as 175th Brigade in 58th (2/1st London) Division. Moved on to Bromeswell Heath in May 1916 and then to Longbridge Deverell in July.
4 February 1917 : landed at Le Havre.
6 February 1918 : absorbed by 1/9th Bn.

2/11 Battalion has same history.

[Phil Evans]

A quick look on FreeBMD shows only three George (no middle name) Linton's possibly marrying a Mary between 1890 and 1917. Presumably yours married Mary Sparkes, June Qu. 1898 in Christchurch RD. The other two were in Leicestershire (1906) and Yorkshire (1895).

Phil

[johnboy]

Q Notnil

George was formally with the royal army service corps with a service no of S/4/ 143938 before transferring to the rifles.

Where did you find that info?

[notnil]

Thanks once again everybody.

The information I've received is brilliant. Didn't even think / realize there are military wills available.

I'll look on will website as a last resort, as it may or may not , help out, especially after all the other advice I've already received it might get cracked before I start shelling money out, by a forum member.

with the mention of his transfer to 2/11 London regiment, and it being recorded on the MIC, does anybody think he was only attached to 2/11 from KRRC , as his number didn't change again, like when he moved from R.A.S.C. and would he then have been KIA with the 2/11 London regiment in or slightly before 11/10/1918 if he died of wounds.

Eagerly awaiting any replies :-))

Many thanks again for all your help and advice Mark

[notnil]

Thanks johnboy for your assistance and help

I got transfer information from R.A.S.C. off ancestry /UK soldiers died in the great war, 1914_1919.

It's more circumstantial evidence, to me anyway, that my George Linton is the rifles George, in that george by trade was a baker and maybe because he was old was put into the R.A.S.C ,until the armies need for frontline soldiers made it a necessity that he got transferred to the rifles. But again it comes down to definate proof.

Cheers Mark

[notnil]

Phil,

Yes the 1898 George Linton marriage is my George married to Mary.

This is more circumstantial evidence to me , as the cwgc inscription records say husband of M Linton (Mary ??)

Again no proof, but a lot of my information ties into my George

Thanks Mark

[johnboy]

As RASC is not on the medal roll, I wonder if he never served overseas with them?

It seems all his service started at the earliest in early 1917. All his numbers are 6 digit.

[kenf48]

The medal rolls are quite interesting he was one of about 15 men with similar numbers who were transferred to the 2/11 unfortunately no date given and it's getting to a busy time for any in depth research, howeverA/202123 Palmer previously serve in the 61st Field Bakery S4/122963; 202118 was also in the ASC his number prefix was S2/ both these men joined the BEF in the ASC, there is no similar notation against Pte Linton's entry therefore he probably did not serve with the ASC in France. Unfortunately there is no note that Palmer transferred to the 2/11 but it does seem a bit of a coincidence and the men either side of him did go to the 2/11.

S4 means Supply and the 4 refers to Kitchener's 4th Army or correctly K4 which was in fact the 5th Army, this means he probably volunteered around December 1914/early 1915.

See http://www.1914-1918.net/kitcheners.htm

He may well have been a 'special enlistment' to the ASC carrying on his trade as a baker, once overseas he would have probably earned more in the Army with the various allowances than in the corner shop bakery. The men who were 'special enlistments' did a minimum of Army training just a couple of weeks learning the 'army way' and then some sort of proficiency test and then on to a posting either at home or overseas. They were not expected, nor trained to fight.

Once in the Army everyone was liable to carry a gun, it is possible that this group of men who transferred had special skills but I don't know enough about how Battalion field kitchens were organised to give a steer on that. He may have been killed while working at his trade, as by that time it had become a war of movement once again, or he may have been 'combed out' and transferred to the infantry.

Unless someone else comes along I'll have a look after the holiday to see if any of the others has a record.

As to your other question the KRRC did not form any TF units though there was a strong affiliation which dated from prior to 1908 with the Rifles units of the London Regiment (entirely a TF formation) and I'd suggest that is why he was not renumbered when he was shown as posted to the 2/11, not transferred.

Which is perhaps another indication this group was posted due to some special skills.

Ken

[notnil]

Thanks again Ken

I was looking myself last night at the medal rolls and came across the 15 men posted to the 2/11th London. It seemed a few were former ASC, also I think a rifleman moushell ( number near George ) was a bakers assistant on the 1911 census ( don't no if it has any relevance ),but my George was a baker. so I thought, like you suggested, that these men were mopped up , to replace casualties from previous battles.

I've been looking on internet, reading forum posts and links given by forum members.

I've come to think that George was mopped up with other ASC troops , conscript soldiers ,then transferred to KRRC and given 6 figure service no, as previously mentioned Johnboy, early 1917, but didn't serve with them, and was posted straight away to affiliated KRRC unit the 2/11th London Bn.

With further research I've since discovered that 2/11th were disbanded in early 1918. I think that George was then posted to 1/13th Kensington London, after the 2/11th disbandment, as on the cwgc records it has George KIA while affiliated 13th London on 11/10/1918.

The 13th London were involved in a battle 8th -12th October ( pursuit of selle?? ) and think this was the engagement where George was killed.

I don't no if the above information is correct or I am putting a 2&2 together and coming up with 6 :-)

Don't know if you have any theories or anymore information on this or indeed previous replies.

Look forward to hearing off you again,( obviously after the holidays period)

All the best and have a great safe Christmas

Thanks Mark