Searching for possible service - the Monckton brothers of Pattingham,

[M_O'Neill]

Hello all,

So I've been trying to piece together the WWI history of parts of my family tree and I'm currently focusing on one family, the Moncktons, on my maternal grandmother's side. There were five brothers in this family along with three sisters, all children of James Monckton and Mary Ann Monckton (born Hughes). I know of the service of two of the brothers, but have yet to find anything of the others. I believe only one of the brothers died in the war, as only one is recorded on the War Memorial at St Chad's church, Pattingham.

• William E Monckton - born c1881 - Haven't found a record of any military service yet. He was a married man when the war broke out.

• John Thomas 'Jack' Monckton - born c1884 - My great-grandfather. Possible Derby Scheme man. went through the 2/5th and /1/4th Lincolnshires but actually fought with the 10th,'Grimsby Chums' at the attack on the chemical works at Roeux, April 28th 1917. Whereabouts unknown after that but he survived the war.

• Charles Herbert Monckton - born c1886 - No record of him in the 1891, 1900 or 1911 censuses. Likely died in childhood.

• George Harry Monckton - born c 1889 - Served with the 37th division as part of 124th Brigade R.F.A. Disembarked July 1915, died 3rd September 1918 in fighting around Beugny. Buried at Achiet-Le-Grand Communal Cemetary Extension.

• James Albert Monckton - born c1895 - No record of any military service found yet, still alive in 1911, working as a farm labourer. I assume he would have signed up but have not been able to trace him.

If anyone can find any leads on either William Monckton (who may not have served due to age and marriage) or James Albert Monckton, I'd be very grateful. The war clearly had such an effect on this family it'd be nice to know the full story.

[Terence Munson]

Hi,

I wondered if another Monckton with a Grimsby connection might have a place in your family tree:

George Christopher Monckton

Terry

[M_O'Neill]

Hi Terence,

I don't believe the Moncktons of Pattingham had any Grimsby connection (that I'm aware of). Their parents were from Staffordshire and Shropshire respectively.

I think my great-grandfather only ended up with the Grimsby Chums because he happened to have been called up into the Lincolnshire Regiment and the Chums needed fresh men in advance of the attack on Roeux.

Of course it's entirely possible that George Christopher Monckton is a distant, distant cousin of some sort. I've yet to trace the Monckton branch of my tree back beyond my 3xgreat grandfather.

[Langdon]

There's a William E Monckton MIC of the Royal Warwicks (34400) and then Manchesters (88313) with no indication that he's linked to Pattingham but given the geography may be worth investigating...

Do you know what the E stood for?

The alternative is that being an experienced policeman and following the considerable loss of policemen to recruitment, he may have been caught up in the attempt to stem the flow..

Mike

[M_O'Neill]

I believe the E stands for Edward (which would make sense given the other male names in that part of the tree). His first son Leonard is born in Jul 1911 and his name is given as 'William Edward Monckton'.

I'll definitely investigate this lead you've found. Although the MIC gives no link to Pattingham, the St Chad's war memorial does list someone else from Pattingham who died in the Royal Warwicks - Pte Christopher Sidney Miller (306418), KIA 7-9-16 age 20, 2/8th Battalion, so it wasn't unheard of for Pattingham men to be in the Warwicks.

Can you give me any background on the tension between the police force and military recruitment? I've not heard much about this before.

Thanks for all your help.

[Langdon]

I haven't any specific source about the police but I recall that the volunteering of policemen (including ex-service and reservists) caused alarming shortages in parts of the country, so much so that the authorities had to not only enlist "specials" but also counter the assumption that once the war was over ("by Christmas") they could all have their old jobs back. Whether the assumption was a guarentee at some point I don't know.

If I find anything to support this I'll let you know!

Mike

[M_O'Neill]

I can find two children born to William and Alice. Leonard, born in 1911 and William L born in 1916. So he was definitely still in England in 1916 (or back, if he had already served).

[Langdon]

Just looking at James Albert and not finding much at all. But having found an Albert J Monckton b. abt.1895, died December 1962 in Woverhampton, Staffs., there is an Albert J Monckton service number 204961 in the Kings (Liverpool) Regiment. Any Kings on St Chad's?!

Long shot but if you can't find someone, it's worth looking at 2nd names for 1st...

And could this be Charles Herbert in the E&W Death Index as you thought?:

Name: Charles Herbert Monkton

Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887

Registration Year: 1887

Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun

Age at Death: 0

Registration district: Wolverhampton

Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District

Inferred County: Staffordshire

Volume: 6b

Page: 281

Mike

[M_O'Neill]

I believe that is indeed the Charles Herbert Monckton who died. As for James, there are no Kings Liverpool Regiment on the war memorial at Pattingham. There is someone listed from the 89th coy Machine Gun Corps, and I've found a James Monckton listed in the Machine Gun Corps. Looks like a Surrey regiment, so it looks like a long shot.

[M_O'Neill]

So I've just found a WWI pension record for the Albert James Monckton of the King's Liverpool Regiment (204961) mentioned above, and can confirm that it is indeed my great-grand uncle. The residence is listed as Westbeech, Pattingham which is where he lived.

 

The pension record gives a discharge date of 22nd August 1919. Does anyone here have any idea in which battalion he might have served? From what I understand, the King's Liverpool fielded quite a number in various different theatres. His medal roll lists 'OSR' as his only theatre.

 

EDIT: Ignore that last request, I'd misread the medal roll. He served in the 17th Battalion of the King's Liverpool Regiment.

Edited 23 March , 2019 by M_O'Neill