Letter from Turkish Officer translated Gallipoli December 1915 (1)

[sdjknox]

Dear All

I have attached a copy of a translated letter found in the possessions of John "Jack" Herbert Chapman who served with 1/5 Suffolk at Gallipoli. I have previously had a post concerning him and a trench map which our expert forum members concluded was a theoretical plan. They also provided information as to activities at Hill 60 by the Suffolk Regiment.

It would appear from the heading of the letter that it was written by a Turkish Officer to his wife and was not posted coming into the possession of the Imperial forces and was translated at Gallipoli in December 1915.

I hope this very poignant letter is of interest and is not well known in expert circles.

Letter in two parts second part to follow.

Steve Knox

Please see attached last part of the letter from the Turkish Officer.

Steve Knox

[akifemre]

Hello Steve,

Thank you very much for sharing very interesting letter which was written by Turkish Officer.

Unfortunately , this letter cannot be read easily. Is it clear that this officer's regimant and battalion number?

How could this letter be taken from Turkish officer? Was he dead or POW?

Thank you for your information, in advance.

Tuncay Yılmazer

[Wigwhammer]

It says in the heading of the translation that the Turkish officer has been killed and the letter was not posted, so it was found when his body was searched and translated, presumably, to see whether it contained any military information.

Perhaps Steve has the original too?

Cheers

Colin

[sdjknox]

Hi ,

Unfortunately I couldn't make the letter any larger or clearer but it is a jpeg and you may be able to copy it to your computer and enlarge it. There are no details as to the regiment or number and it is unlikely these would be on a personal letter between husband and wife.

As Colin says the heading explains the context and my friend only has the translation and not the original from his grandfather.

Steve

[sdjknox]

Tuncay Yilmazer,

Sorry the letter comes across so difficult to read. Having looked at my pdf copy it may have a little more information which you requested and I can tell you the letter is signed by Musta Mohamet and I think it then says Cpt 13 Turkish Infantry. Also the letter has the location of Achi-Baba. I have put this location into Google Earth and it comes up with Alci Tepe on the Gallipoli peninsula. I don't know what to make of that.

I don't know whether this allows you to identify the writer further.

Hope this is of assistance.

Steve Knox

[Guest]

I'm using Chrome and using Ctrl + I can make the image larger and it's quite readable. This also works on Firefox.

Mike

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

This poses some questions if the 13th Regt was that the right unit?

The 13th Infantry Regt (5th Div later 11th Div) under LtCol Ali Raza and later Maj Fehmi was used on the Anzac and Suvla Fronts?

The 13th Div under Col Hovik (Havik) (Albert Heuck) and later LtCol Selahattin Adil was used in the Helles area?

Cheers

S.B

[Jeff Pickerd]

Steve,

Many thanks for putting Captain Musta Mohamet's translated letter up, a very interesting personal reflection of that officers thoughts.

C. E. W. Bean in Volume I of the Official History of Australia in the War of 1914- 1918 gives the 13th Turkish Infantry Regiment as being a part of the 5th Division, as Steve Becker has noted, and that relates to facing the Anzac forces.

What has puzzled me though, is the signing off of his letter as being at Achi Baba. Surely this would indicate that the letter was written while the 13th TIR was under the command of the 11th Division at Sulva Bay, and therefore defending Hill 60, not in the Helles sector of operations?

Or have I got this totally wrong?

But besides that, the letter is just pure gold for an insight to the thinking from the Turkish side facing the 'English'!

Jeff

[michaeldr]

The letter head refers to the translation being made in December 1915 (though this does not confirm when the original was actually written)

If this regiment was part of the 11^th Div, and that Division left the peninsula on 9^th Jan 1916

then is it possible that the 13^th Regt. was at the southern front after the evacuation of Anzac & Suvla?

[Jeff Pickerd]

Thanks Michael,

Yes the translation is dated at December 1915, but from what Steve has put up of the 1st/5th Suffolk attributed to John Herbert Chapman, it would seem that the letter was recovered from the body of Captain Musta Mohamet at Hill 60, or environs. The letter itself gives no indication to, place, nor time, but Captain Mohamet's reference to his troops being devastated by disease would I suggest, put the time frame before November 1915, and I would also suggest that it fits nicely to late August.

The letter itself has a real sadness to it, Captain Mohamet is opening his heart felt love and devotion to his beloved wife Ayisha, and to his two children, his remorse at not being with them, but they would never get to hear of that outpouring of love, just so very sad, but something you see repeated time and time again from both sides! The tragedy of War!

Jeff

[akifemre]

Steve,

Sorry for late answer.

I could not read this letter unfortunately.

It is not clear regiment or division?

Ottoman 13th div. had been deployed on Kerevizdere area since July 1915. ( It was part of the 5.Corps, Second Ottoman Army. )

If division number correct , this paper might have been found in Seddülbahir_Kerevizdere area.

As far as I concern , this division confronted 125.Brigade ?

Tuncay

[michaeldr]

Captain Mohamet's reference to his troops being devastated by disease would I suggest, put the time frame before November 1915, and I would also suggest that it fits nicely to late August.

Jeff,

I'm not sure that we can equate what was a bad time for us (high summer, heat, flies & terrible sanitation, together with poor rations and less than adequate water) with what was a bad time for the Ottoman Army on Gallipoli.

Erickson points out that their sickness rate was generally less than that of the Allies. He asserts that this was probably down to their better conditions; not so overcrowded, adequate fresh food and abundant water. However, he does explain that “The cold and wet winter accelerated the rate of men going sick.”

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Tuncay,

Would this be the normal way for an Ottoman officer's letter to be signed; to mention the Division?

I think that had the letter been written by an English officer, then he might mention his Regiment, but probably not his Division.

Best regards to all

Michael

[sdjknox]

Thanks to all for your interest in this. The translated letter says 13th Turkish Infantry. I don't know whether that helps and if there are any lists of officers by name anywhere? John "Jack" Herbert Chapman was with 1/5 Suffolks at Hill 60 locality but I don't know whether that was for all their service on the peninsula but it appears to place him in the Suvla Bay boundary between the Australian and British forces. steve becker suggests that Achi Baba is in this locality although I still haven't found it. Tuncay's views refer to a locality also which I cannot locate! I only have one book on the Turkish Front (the National Army Museum) and it covers a lot of ground!

I probably haven't contributed much here but perhaps you experts can get a bit further in identification of the man and where he was?

Regards,

Steve

[michaeldr]

Steve,

'Achi Baba' is one of the letter's conundrums

The English officer was almost certainly in the Hill 60 area for all of his short time on Gallipoli

This is a long way from Achi Baba which was a hill in Turkish hands, but on the southern front at Helles.

One possible explanation might be that the English officer got hold of the translation after the evacuation; possibly either at Mudros, or perhaps later in Egypt.

regards

Michael

[sdjknox]

Michael,

Thanks for your information including your possible explanation as to how the letter could have come into Lt Chapman's possession.

Regards,

Steve

[Bryn]

Thanks for posting that, Steve. Very sad to read something from the Turkish side that's very similar to letters from the allied side.

[sdjknox]

Bryn,

Yes it is a very touching letter, I am pleased I could share it and also that it seems to be of interest when I didn't know whether it was a letter in common circulation.

Steve

[bob lembke]

I have to go to bed, but I assure you that the health conditions on the Turkish side were dreadful, certainly for the Germans serving there. My father served in the volunteer Pioniere company, and described the conditions to me a bit.

(Unfortunately he told me little about Gallipoli.) I have also received other materials on this from a friend who lives in Turkey and has exceptional access to materials. He sent me a cable in which the standard pharmaceutical kit

for a cavalry regiment was to be sent to Gallipoli for the exclusive use of the Pioniere company. My father said that the water was black, it had been carried for days in goatskins on camel-back, and an European could only drink it

if it had been laced with oil of peppermint, which the Germans had with them.

At one point the entire German Pioniere company was in such bad shape health-wise that it had to be transported to Istanbul en mass and put in hospital to recover. The whole unit.

My friend also sent me a memoire from a man in the company, and the narrative underlines the conditions. Most of the Turks did not have a proper uniform or shoes. Many wore underwear with a tattered coat tied about it. The

Pionier was at the Helles front, in a dugout just behind the lines, and there was an attack, and the Brits almost reached the dugout. There were 13 German and Turkish Pioniere, and they only had four rifles between them. Luckily

they had a case of grenades in the dugout and they threw a barrage of grenades towards the Brits and kept them at bay before other troops could push the British troops back.

[sdjknox]

Bob,

I found your post very interesting including the context of what you call a German Pioneer company in the front line. The conditions for the Turkish side sound truly dreadful.

Thank you very much for your information.

Steve Knox