Chassepot Bayonets in German service

[dman]

This little tidbit comes from CIC on strategypage,com

On the eve of World War I a German arms dealer found a cache of 60,000 bayonets for the old French Chassepot rifle that had been captured during the Franco-Prussian War (1870-1871), cleverly altered them to fit the equally obsolete German Mauser 1871 rifle, which was still being issued to the Landwehr, and realized a tidy profit.

http://www.strategypage.com/cic/docs/cic440a.asp

[mtaylor]

I wonder what form the modification took and if it's possible to identify such modified bayonets? Many years ago I was given chassepot bayonet which was a WW1 souvenir. I had always assumed that it came from a French source but now I wonder...

[jscott]

Hi both

The German used chassepots have a longer teardrop shaped frog stud on the scabbard, and may also have German regimental markings on the cross guard - typically to landwehr units.

Cheers, J

[N White]

Bayonets modified for the 71,71/84, or Gew 88, since they all fit the same, will have a step machined into the back of the pommel. There is also usually some modification to the press stud or muzzle ring, as the length from ring to lug is slightly shorter on the Chassepot/Gras (as those also fit the same).

See below, a Franco Prussian war dated Chassepot unmodified, with a German frogstud, and a Gras bayonet modified for Gew 88. Notice that the Gras distinctive humpback was shaved off, as well as narrowing the muzzle ring.

[trajan]

This little tidbit comes from CIC on strategypage,com

On the eve of World War I a German arms dealer found a cache of 60,000 bayonets for the old French Chassepot rifle that had been captured during the Franco-Prussian War (1870-1871), cleverly altered them to fit the equally obsolete German Mauser 1871 rifle, which was still being issued to the Landwehr, and realized a tidy profit.

http://www.strategypage.com/cic/docs/cic440a.asp

As usual, one would like to have the source of that tid-bit...!!! The ALFA concern, the biggest German arms dealer pre-WW1, certainly had some 3800 Chassepot rifles on their books in 1909, but I don't know if they had 60,000 bayonets for these, which sounds rather a large figure... The Gew.71 was in use mainly by the home-based Landsturm, active Landsturm units being issued (officially, at least!) with the Gew.88, but even with the shortage of bayonets in 1914-1915, I do wonder if as many as 60,000 bayonets were needed to be converted to fit those rifles. Mind you, I am not certain what rifle the Landwehr was supplied with... But all the photographs I can remember seeing of Landsturm show them with the Gew.71.

See below, a Franco Prussian war dated Chassepot unmodified, with a German frogstud, and a Gras bayonet modified for Gew 88. Notice that the Gras distinctive humpback was shaved off, as well as narrowing the muzzle ring.

Very nice NWhite!

[trajan]

FYI, Just checked back home and my wife tells me that Méry's book on Ersatz bayonets devotes pp 166-178 to the Chassepot conversion, and pp. 179-190 to the Gras conversion, with lots of photographs of these.

[dman]

Cache of 60,000 Chassepot bayonets.....? Sounds like hell of a yard sale.......

As war threatened probably lot of stuff was dug out of attics and storeooms to be put back in service

For example Wurttemberg Landsturm were armed with 25,000 9.5 mm 1887 Mauser rifles . These were leftovers from Turkish contract when Turks

used an escape clause to fill out remainder of contract with 7.65 mm Model 1890 Mausers

Many were constructed using parts which were assembled into complete rifles

[trajan]

As war threatened probably lot of stuff was dug out of attics and storeooms to be put back in service

Indeed - have a glance at my posts on foreign weapons in German army service thread on what was re-used from the 1871 war - it's somewhere in http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=219748&page=1entry2175487