tharkin56 Posted 20 November , 2014 Share Posted 20 November , 2014 I could off course be making a mistake with this but hope not could off course be missing the obvious. Captain W. O. Gibbs, 10th Hussars, was a brilliant polo player. When his regiment was stationed in India it had a long run of success in the Indian Inter-Regimental Cup, winning the final at Meerut six years in succession, 1907 to 1912. Captain Gibbs was in four of the sides along with the late Captain the Hon . Arthur Annesley, who fell in action in the early weeks of November. He held a handicap of 5 goals. HARRIS, Corporal, Roy King. Son of Col. F. W. Harris. Victim of war strain. Educated Blundells and Sandhurst. Died November 1917. Corporal Roy King Harris, who has been killed in action . was a very fine rider and polo player when a Lieutenant in the 7th Lancers, Indian Army . He also served with the Warwickshire and Leicestershire Regiments, and left the Army to go to South Africa, rejoining the Army for the war, when he was recommended for restoration to his commission. Thanks for any pointers, off 450 players these two escape me for the minute. Deaths could have been recorded in error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 20 November , 2014 Share Posted 20 November , 2014 William Otter "Giblet" Gibbs, 10th Hussars, appears to have died in 1960, although he was wounded 1st November 1914 - https://www.flickr.com/photos/nwkf/9790229186/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tharkin56 Posted 21 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2014 Thanks thats one down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 21 November , 2014 Share Posted 21 November , 2014 Nothing obvious for Harris in either the GRO overseas military deaths or Ancestry's listing of England/Wales deaths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 21 November , 2014 Share Posted 21 November , 2014 HARRIS, Corporal, Roy King. Son of Col. F. W. Harris. Victim of war strain. Educated Blundells and Sandhurst. Died November 1917. Corporal Roy King Harris, who has been killed in action . was a very fine rider and polo player when a Lieutenant in the 7th Lancers, Indian Army . He also served with the Warwickshire and Leicestershire Regiments, and left the Army to go to South Africa, rejoining the Army for the war, when he was recommended for restoration to his commission. Thanks for any pointers, off 450 players these two escape me for the minute. Deaths could have been recorded in error Interestingly, he isn't recorded on Blundell's WW1 memorial - there's no listing for anyone with the surname 'King-Harris', and the only 'Harris' listed is 'K. D.'. Strangely, I can't find a likely 'K.D. Harris' on CWGC either...! Nothing on CWGC for this name/initials/combination of initials. I checked all the Harris' died Oct-Nov 17 and there's no obvious candidate who might even be the right age (assuming that this chap must have been older than his mid-20's at the time of his death, judging by the brief biog. Also, the phrase 'victim of war strain' doesn't match the other description that he was 'killed in action'. Sounds more like a euphemism for suicide, or for some neuro-psychiatric condition. In which case, someone might be attributing his death to a condition acquired on active service without it necessarily being the case. If you really want to crack this one you're probably going to need to track down his service details with the Indian Army, or his death certificate (assuming the date of November 1917 is accurate). Alternatively, find his father's details (Col. F.W. Harris? There can't be too many candidates) and then track down from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tharkin56 Posted 21 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2014 Many thanks would the army list show any further details when he was Lieutenant in the 7th lancers. If he died from war strain out of service would the memorial committee included his name, some other cases I looked out ignored these men Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 22 November , 2014 Share Posted 22 November , 2014 Many thanks would the army list show any further details when he was Lieutenant in the 7th lancers. If he died from war strain out of service would the memorial committee included his name, some other cases I looked out ignored these men There are 3 different Army Lists that will give you different types of information; the Indian Army List (copies at the India Office Library collection at the British Library) was published monthly and will provide various details of his service in the Indian Army (postings, transfers, promotions, etc), then there's the Monthly Army List (which is the most common - it's the one everyone knows) which does the same for his service in the British Army and which includes some details relating to the his service in the Indian army, and then there's a Quarterly Army List which gives other details, such as dates of service within various , medals awarded, date of birth, etc.The India Office collection also has ledgers containing details of all officers appointed to the Insian Army, and there are also files containing applications (often with a fair amount of biographical info), plus files of service papers, etc. Well worth checking for anyone researching an Indian Army officer. The criteria for inclusion on a war memorial can vary greatly - these things were decided at local level, and the details did not come from any centralized government source. The committee would only consider names that they were aware of (obviously!) which is why some apparently obvious names (obvious, that is, to us contemporary researchers who have access to computer databases and the like) are missing from memorials. My experience is that schools (more specifically public schools) had very well established formal and informal 'old boy' networks, so 'old boy' casualties tend not to be missing. In this case, it leads me to wonder whether this fellow was truly a service casualty. The phrase about him being a 'victim of war strain' appears to imply something but it isn't very clear exactly what it means. I've come across several death notices which employ phrases like this when referring to men who aren't on CWGC. Maybe the school itself can shed some light on whether he was an old boy and, if so, when he died. Don't give up, but something isn't quite right about this one IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 22 November , 2014 Share Posted 22 November , 2014 Further to my last post, i just tried searching for details of his training at sandhurst. Nothing comes up. I tried searching for all possible combinations (Roy Harris, king Harris, king-Harris, etc), but there doesn't appear to have been a cadet with this name. So, he doesn't appear to have trained at sandhurst (not under that name, at least), and he isn't on the blundell's memorial. He is described as being a 'victim of war strain' of which he apparently 'died', but elsewhere he's described as being 'killed in action'. Like I said in my last post, something isn't quite right here. Either his name is wrong, or someone was seeking to indicate something that wasn't accurate. If his name is wrong, then all you've got to do is find a former officer of the 7th lancers, Indian army, who was an old boy of blundell's and who died in November 1917. Mysteries always intrigue me, so I would try to pursue this, in which case my first step would be to check some army lists from about 1890 to about 1914, and I'd email blundell's to see if they have a record of an old boy with that name or a similar name who is reckoned to have died in about November 1917. Explain that there is some confusion over his exact name. Are you researching a roll of honour or a war memorial, btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Fielding Posted 22 November , 2014 Share Posted 22 November , 2014 Are we talking the 7th Hariana Lancers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 22 November , 2014 Share Posted 22 November , 2014 Are we talking the 7th Hariana Lancers? That's how I read it. Can't be certain, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Fielding Posted 22 November , 2014 Share Posted 22 November , 2014 Tenuous - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Fielding Posted 22 November , 2014 Share Posted 22 November , 2014 That's how I read it. Can't be certain, though. In 1846 16th Irregular Cavalry In 1847 became the 17th Irregular Cavalry In 1861 became the 7th Regiment of Bengal Cavalry In 1900 became the 7th Regiment of Bengal Lancers In 1901 became the 7th Bengal Lancers In 1903 became the 7th Lancers In 1904 became the 7th Hariana Lancers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 22 November , 2014 Share Posted 22 November , 2014 Tenuous - 5663616747438080.png Not tenuous at all! Nice one, Simon! The only Harris I could find on Blundell's was a 'k.d. Harris' (see my post #5), and the man you've just identified played polo for 7th lancers - I reckon that's him, but more research needed. Do you have any further details? The fact he's described as 'Mr' suggests to me that he was a subaltern. That's probably the name to search for in the army list. I couldn't find k.d. Harris on CWGC, so Either he's a non-comm or he wasn't a war death. The fathers details don't match on the second one that you posted. Good work, though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 22 November , 2014 Share Posted 22 November , 2014 I've just rechecked CWGC for 'k.d. Harris', 'king Harris', 'king-Harris', and various wild-card searches on TNA's MIC index, but can't establish a likely candidate. Well worth asking blundell's to check who the 'k.d. Harris' on their memorial was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Fielding Posted 22 November , 2014 Share Posted 22 November , 2014 Whew - not going mad after all! Will persue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 22 November , 2014 Share Posted 22 November , 2014 OK, it's him! I've just checked blundell's war memorial online, and he's listed as King Davie ('Roy') Harris, cpl 10/hussars, formerly 2/lt 10 lancers, lt Leicestershire regt and kings own Scottish borderers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Fielding Posted 22 November , 2014 Share Posted 22 November , 2014 Nice one HG! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 22 November , 2014 Share Posted 22 November , 2014 Puzzlingly, he Has a set of officers service papers in WO 339/9318, listed as Lt., KOSB. The war memorial has him as Cpl, so I wonder if he was discharged or relinquished his commission? Edit: He was 2Lt 25 Jan 08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Fielding Posted 22 November , 2014 Share Posted 22 November , 2014 Name: King Davie Harris Gender: Male Birth Date: 3 Dec 1887 Baptism Date: 19 Jan 1888 Baptism Age: 0 Baptism Place: Bangalore, Madras, India Father: Frederick Williams Henry Davie Harris Mother: Jessie Maria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 22 November , 2014 Share Posted 22 November , 2014 Lt 7th Hariana lancers 25th April 1910 Name: King Davie Harris Gender: Male Birth Date: 3 Dec 1887 Baptism Date: 19 Jan 1888 Baptism Age: 0 Baptism Place: Bangalore, Madras, India Father: Frederick Williams Henry Davie Harris Mother: Jessie Maria Fathers details match! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Fielding Posted 22 November , 2014 Share Posted 22 November , 2014 IA List 1912 Surname: Harris Given Name: King Davie Birth Date: 3 Dec 87 FIRST COMM: 25 Jan 08 DATE RANK: 25 Apl 10 RANK: Lieutenant COMPANY: British Officers of the Indian Army REMARKS: 72 Punjabis Page #: 153m Lt 7th Hariana lancers 25th April 1910Fathers details match! Great! I can get dressed now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 22 November , 2014 Share Posted 22 November , 2014 Awarded an aviators certificate by royal aeronautical society on 22nd December 1914! Probably a photo on ancestry, I'd imagine....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Fielding Posted 22 November , 2014 Share Posted 22 November , 2014 Intriguing - was a Lt in 1914 - RFC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 22 November , 2014 Share Posted 22 November , 2014 Awarded an aviators certificate by royal aeronautical society on 22nd December 1914! Probably a photo on ancestry, I'd imagine....! Edit: he must have been training for RFC at the very least. Great! I can get dressed now! The mind boggles....! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Fielding Posted 22 November , 2014 Share Posted 22 November , 2014 Birmingham Daily Post 11 March 1915 Wow... how rare was this? The mind boggles....! ;-) No quite as bad as it sounds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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