R Sussex R

[leigh]

I have been doing some investigtion into Woburn Abbey Cemetery, Cuinchy.

There are 10 men form the Royal Sussex Regt. listed in one plot. I have seen pictures before showing a comunal grave and the stones all shoulder to shoulder.

Would this be the case here or will there be 10 men in one standard size grave all inscribed on one stone?

There are also some errors I have found in the cemetery/grave plot listings. Is anyone going there in the near future could check a couple of graves?

regards

Leigh

[Terry Denham]

If they are named individuals, they will probably be in one grave with separate headstones. I suspect that the stones will be touching. Are we talking about Grave I.G.24 here?

What discrepancies have you found? There are many cemeteries where a number of men are buried in a smaller number of graves (eg 2 to a grave) but they still have individual headstones - making the headstone row longer than the grave row. In these situations, it will look like the headstone number does not match the grave number.

[Terry Denham]

Leigh

Just checked my records.

Woburn Abbey Cemetery is one of those I mentioned above where the grave numbers appear not to match the headstone numbers.

[leigh]

I G 24 is indeed the grave ref terry

I have no other interest in it other than curiosity.

I dont have my info here at work but the errors I think are probably typo's, I will check tonight.

one I can remember is

MILLER, J Private

7345

Highland Light Infantry

I. B. 39.

I guess it should be 19 not 39

Regards

Leigh

[Terry Denham]

Leigh

Not necessarily. This is just what I am talking about.

Example:

There are twenty men buried in 12 graves.

The graves are numbered 1 to 12

The headstones are actually 20 in number

Therefore it looks as though casualties are in different number graves to that given in the register/database. A man in grave number 3 could look as though he is number 6 if there are two in each of the graves 1-3. Confusing isn't it!

However, you may be talking about a different sort of discrepancy.

[gem22]

Leigh

Lijssenthoek cemetery at Poperinghe is another cemetery that appears to have a number of errors of the type you mention. But as Terry says it is simply due to the number of known bodies in each grave. Two bodies buried one on top of the other but two headstones placed side by side makes for confusion.

Last year I visited Lijssenthoek cemetery to get a photo for a forum member. At first I was confused because I couldn't find the headstone where it was meant to be. So I went back to the register and spent some time going through it and eventually came to the conclusion that Terry has given. All the bodies were in the plot and row as described but it took careful examination to work out that more than one body occupied a single grave. Once I'd worked that out finding the headstone was easy.

It's much easier when the bodies are unidentified; that way one headstone will do for any number of bodies. Not that I'm recommending that as an easy way out when it comes to putting up headstones for multiple burials. God forbid.

Garth

[leigh]

Ok... I think I am still confused.

so the CWGC grave ref is the actual hole in the ground ref not a head stone ref.

if you have a row of 20 plots but one has 10 men in then you will have headstone numbers possibly up till 30. but if the CWGC lists graves not stones then there should be no error.

In your example if there are 2 in plot 1 and 2 in plot 2 then a guy in plot 3 would be the 5th man but still only listed as plot 3.

I can see there would be a discrepancy if the CWGC refs were the headstone ref and not the grave ref. Ie you could have headstone #22 on grave #17 but that is not the case here is it?

its late in the day, me heads not working.....

[leigh]

But I am thinking Millar is still a typo,

I B 1- I B 5 being unknowns

I B 6- I B 18 named and all single burials

and I B 39 should be 19?

L.

[dycer]

Leigh,

I am sure Terry may come up with a definitive answer but I think you are tackling this from the wrong direction.

Assuming the graves are war time burials you need to compare the temporary grave markers,etc at the time with the formal Cemetery layout now.

Unfortunately I cannot post the War time photograph and photograph I took of my Uncle's Grave in 1999.

Clearly though the War time photograph shows that his individual Grave is very close to his colleague.They are marked by the wooden crossses.I am sure an overlap would have been created when the permanent headstones were erected simply because the "Stone Headstones" are wider that the wooden crosses they replaced.

I offer this as a possible solution not knowing the particular Cemetery you describe.

George

[leigh]

Ok here is the difinitive list of confusion.

Miller grave ref I. B. 39

row I.B only goes up to 19 on the cemeter plan.

Russell I. C. 21

row I.C only goes up to 20 on the cemeter plan.

There are no double graves so I think this must just be one extra grave.

Bourne II. 6. 30

the 6 should be a letter but no group in plot II goes up to 30, all up to 20 only.

Wood III. D. 11.

Row D only goes to 10, is this another grave.

All these quieries a related to the cemetery plan on the CWGC site here

Woburn Abbey cemetery plan.

I think Bourne is a typo.

Russell and Wood are extra graves, not on the plan.

Bourne is an odd one though.

Regards

Leigh

[Terry Denham]

Leigh

I'll check these with CWGC for you.

Bourne certainly looks like a transcription/scanning error.

[leigh]

Thanks for that Terry.

It will be most appreciated. I am off there in Jan so all will become known in time.

Regards

Leigh

[Terry Denham]

Bourne was not included in the original 1929 CWGC register but was added in the 1985 reprint - with the grave number II.6.20.

Oddly, he came from Lindfield, Sussex - just two miles from where I am sitting!

It is possible that he was moved to the cemetery after the original plan was drawn up.

[leigh]

ok then Terry,

group II has rows A,B,C,D and E

A and B both have a plot number 20 with a known soldier.

From this we can assume that the 6 is a typo for C, D or E?

Regards

yours with ever more annoying q's

Leigh

[Terry Denham]

Miller is a typo as the original register gives I.B.19

Same with Russell which is given as I.G.21

And Wood given as I.G.1 (also a late entry)

All have been reported to CWGC. Well done Leigh.

[leigh]

Terry,

Miller was as I thought.

Russell in I.G.21 puts him in a grave with another man who died 9/4/18 which fits.

I.G.1 for wood is a free plot on my plan so thats good too

Thanks muchly Terry.

Regards

Leigh

[Terry Denham]

Correction for Wood

There are two Woods and they both look wrong

J.Wood either III.D.11 or III.C.10

W R Wood either I.G.3 or I.G.1

I'll come back on those!

[leigh]

Terry,

Another for you to speculate, the CWGC have on the Woburn Abbey details th efact that the R berks R started the cemetery.

This seems a bit odd as they only have one burial in there, I would have expected more. then again I guess it only takes one grave to begin a cemetery or the others may well have been unidentifiable or the grave markers lost as it was a pretty front line cemetery for the whole of the war.

Regards

Leigh

[Terry Denham]

Leigh

Sorted!

BOURNE is in II.C.20.

There were several other grave number errors in the listings for this cemetery - all now corrected (somebody had a bad day!). If you are interested, email me with your email address and I will send you the corrected list for the whole cemetery which I have just obtained from CWGC.