Royal Flying Corps Wings

[Simin 1956]

Hello there

I am new to this forum but I am trying to find out more about my grandfather Lt R.M Rodwell in 1914 who was one of the first pilots to fly to France in August 1914 with No 2 Sqaudron RFC. He later formed up No 19 Sqaudron in Warwickshire - this was not designated as a Reserve Sqaudron as far as I can tell. Still later 15/05/17 he was promoted to be a Wing Commander for the 25th Wing. I'd like to find out a bit more about the 25th Wing - e.g what squadrons were within the wing - was it a training wing or an operational one etc. I also had a letter to my mother shortly after my fathers death indicating that he was based with this wing at Waddington in late 1917 to early 1918. No evidence of this so far in any of the records I have found.

Despite being one of the first few who flew to France in 1914 he does not get much of a mention if any in any of the well known histories of the RFC. I can only put this down to the fact that rather than be one of the ones who got the VC and died shortly after that he concentrated on survival and lived to a ripe old age of 86. I only met him on a couple of occasions actually when I was a child but I am still very proud of him!!!!

Any info on RFC Wings - particularly no 25 much appreciated. I've may already have seen some stuff about their location i think.

There doesn't generally seem to be much stuff about squadron movements in the Great War either which is fascinating stuff. Only a few minutes ago I tumbled on the fact on this forum that reserve squadrons had a duplicate numbering system to active ones.

Clearly I am getting the bug for all this.

Best

Simon - Milton Keynes UK

[alex revell]

Simon,

RAF Squadrons by Wing Commander C G Jefford published by Airlife Publishing in 1988 will give the movements of all squadrons from 1912 to 1987. The official history by Raleigh and Jones, The Great War. The War in the Air, will give you details of Wings etc. and much more besides. I believe the five vols of the official history are now online.

Vol 1, page 288-292 confirms that your grandfather went to France with 2 Squadron. 'Lt. R M Rodwell. West Yorkshire regiment.'

At the National Archive at Kew the boxes numbered 734-736 and 2162 in Air 1, has information on 2 Squadron, possibly the War Diary. If you look on the NA website under Air 1 you should be able to trace anything on 2 Squadron.

Best of luck

Alex

[Airshipped]

There's a photo of Rodwell in Merriam's "First Through the Clouds", which can be downloaded for free from many online resources. (Rodwell only gets a brief mention, in the introduction).

There's a better group photo in Vol 23 No 4 of 'Cross & Cockade', in which Rodwell is also mentioned in the article on No.2 Squadron.

[quemerford]

Definitely some good stuff at TNA - I looked at one of the 2 Sqn deployment to France files recently and there are lists of all pilots involved etc. Also the War Diaries are good sources of daily flights made by each pilot.

[Simin 1956]

Thanks very much. Some really useful replies. I downloaded the pdfs of the Raleigh/Jones volumes this morning from a site at Toronto University. Similarly ordered up the RAF Squadron item from my university library loans department (no cost to me!!!). I'd already come across the 'First throught the Clouds' pdf earlier in the week!! Sort of wondering now how much of the 2 Squadron stuff might be downloadable from the nationa archives -- not much I suspect. Also interested in any further info on 19 Squadron 43RS Squadron and 25th Wing - but the excellent Cross and Cockade journal is likely to give me some stuff I am sure. I am amazed at the wealth of documentation you have put me onto. thanks again.

Simon

[fetubi]

Simon,

Here too is a link to a photo of your grandfather, from Flight Magazine, of May 22 1914:

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1914/1914%20-%200553.html

The Flight Archive is superb - you'll enjoy exploring it, quite apart from finding a few more references to your forebear.

Regards,

Trevor

[ICM - RAF Retd]

Simon: There was a 2Lt (later Capt) J T Rodwell who was a pilot with 10 Squadron circa 1916 - any relation?

[Simin 1956]

Thanks again I am lucky to have such knowledgable help. Yes I have seen the J T Rodwell name - the T stands for Theodore and my grandfather did have a brother who although I never met him was always referred to as Uncle Teddy

so worth some further checking anyway. Thanks again all. Simon.

[ICM - RAF Retd]

Simon: I don't have posting dates for Teddy, but it looks as if he was with 10 Sqn from late 1915 to late 1916, starting as 2Lt and leaving as Captain. He would have been a highly experienced operator by that time. A bit of Googling locates him a year later as Major, taking over as OC 9 Sqn in November 1917 for the duration of the war, and with an OBE somewhere along the line plus a post-war Mention in Dispatches.

[Simin 1956]

3 pm 21/11/14

Thanks Ian and others for your last responses. I find that I had bought Ian's book on the birth of the RAF before he had even communicated with me on this forum!!! Very useful. A few more questions arising out of these exchanges regarding R.M.Rodwell

1) I'm now not certain that while he was made a Wing Commander on 15/05/17 that it was to be commander of 25 Wing. On 31/03/17 he was posted from 19 Squadron in France to be with 43RS Squadron at Ternhill. this incidentally coincides with the birth of my father on 10/04/17 so I guess he might have got a little leave for that as well given that he was with 19 Squadron from around June 1916 in France to the end of march 1917.

Then 15/05/17 (from the Gazette) "to be Wing Comdr from Sqdn Comdr, and to be TLt Col whilst so employed" No indication in this entry of which squadron or wing.

2) March 1918 entry seems to confirm him as Wing Commander so was there some kind of 'Acting' period built into all of this.

3) I guess what I am looking for here is some list of Wing Commanders - as one would probably easily get for the Second World War. there is this mentioning in the letter to my mother as having been associated with Waddington during 1918 and this fits in with the idea in my head that he was doing more training from April 1917 through to the close of the war. I have a publication about the history of Waddington anyway but no specific mention in the index of my grandfather.

So still plenty of pieces of the jigsaw to fit together. There are quite a few mentions of him during 1916 and 1915 with 19 Squadron and indeed he was responsible for it as "ASquadron Commander" on 22/10/15

Also curious about his survival in France form June 1917 to March 18 but if he was a squadron commander during this period I came across a directive saying that they were not allowed to fly on active combat missions.

Not as yet come across a definitive list of Wings and the squadrons that comprised them but maybe that does not exist anywhere. Interested that Hugh Dowding was based Fienville at around the same time as my grandfather as well.

7pm 21/11/14

Just found this on the command structure of RFC

http://www.airfieldinformationexchange.org/community/showthread.php?12813-FIRST-WORLD-WAR-RFC-RAF-Command-Structure-Wings

which puts the 25th Wing at Castle Bromwich controlling amongst other satelite fields Ternhill. So that makes me think 43 Squadron RS was absorbed into this Wing and my grandfather was indeed promoted to command it. But no connection with Waddington which the 23rd Wing has.

Very grateful for all the help so far anyway - any further comments and thoughts much appreciated - but as you can see this is after another week of digging away at it all

Best

Simon

[topgun1918]

Simon

You may have some of these already, but a quick round-up of London Gazette entries relating to R M Rodwell:

The Prince of Wales's Own (West Yorkshire Regiment), Reginald Mandeville Rodwell, in succession to Lieutenant D G Ponsonby, admitted to the Indian Army [5 October 1910]

Lieutenant to be Captain, 7 December 1914

Flight Commander to be Squadron Commander and temporary Major whist so employed, 27 October 1915

Squadron Commander to be Wing Commander and temporary Lieutenant-Colonel whilst so employed, 15 May 1917

Lieutenant-Colonel Reginald Mandeville Rodwell awarded AFC (Gazetted 3 June 1919)

Relinquished RAF commission 31 December 1919 upon return to Army duty

Capt R M Rodwell AFC is restored to the establishment of the West Yorks Regt, 31 December 1919

Capt R M Rodwell AFC, West Yorks Regt, to be Adjutant, 6th Bn., West Yorks Regt, 15 April 1920

Capt R M Rodwell AFC, is seconded for service as an Adjutant, T.F. West Yorks Regt, 15 April 1920

Capt R M Rodwell AFC, West Yorks Regt vacates appointment as Adjutant, 9 May 1922

West Yorks Regt - The undermentioned Capts are restored to the establishment: R M Rodwell AFC, 24 May 1922

West Yorks Regt - Capt R M Rodwell AFC, is seconded for service as an Assistant Instructor, Small Arms School, India, 25 November 1924

He was later a Brigadier and in April 1942 was the Military Commander of the Haifa District; by November 1942 he was the Military Commander of the Galilee District (information from the Palestine Gazette)

No 43 (Reserve) Squadron was based at Castle Bromwich, Birmingham, so it seems more than likely that it came under control of the 25th (Training) Wing.

Graeme

[Simin 1956]

Thanks for the ordering of the gazette entries - yes I re-found a definite reference to him as a major with 25th training wing in the list of Warwickshire men in the RFC between mid march and 6th April 1917. My father was born on the 10th April so I think there must have been leave for my grandfather in April somewhere. Not much after this date through into 1918 so far.

Simon

[jonathan norbury]

If you are still out there Simon some eight years on, Reginald Mandeville Rodwell was married to my great aunt Dorothy and I can provide some detail

Thanks

Jonathan Norbury

[DavidOwen]

24 minutes ago, jonathan norbury said:

If you are still out there Simon some eight years on, Reginald Mandeville Rodwell was married to my great aunt Dorothy and I can provide some detail

Thanks

Jonathan Norbury

Welcome to the Forum Jonathan.

Simon last visited in 2020 but hopefully tagging him here may alert him to your post @Simin 1956

[Simin 1956]

Dear Jonathan,

Thanks. Even 8 years on the interest in older relatives never leaves you. Funny how this stuff comes up around Christmas when we all have a few days holiday to think about yes.

I'd be most interested to hear what info you have thank you. One point i was told by my half uncle.  There were two Reginald Manderville Rodwells at that time. They were cousins apparently born within a few years of each other. Mine was born in England seved in the army then RFC then back in army until 1946. Is this the same one you have? He was made a Brigadier upon retirement and apparently ghost wrote a book called First through the Clouds in the 1950s. I met him in old age when i was between the ages of 7 and 18ni think.

I'd be curious to hear about your great aunt and who she was married to as well

 

All best for now

Simon

[jonathan norbury]

The fact that there are two Reginald Mandeville Rodwell seems correct, if unlikely, as the two profiles I have seen did not seem to match as the one who married my great aunt Dorothy and died in Crediton, Devon had served in the Royal Irish Rifles, not the RFC. It seems right as I have joined a Royal Flying Corps forum to make mention of Dorothy's brother (my grandfather) who did serve in the RFC, Colonel Eric Wheatley DFC and whose bio is below and mention of Dorothy Wheatley who became Dorothy Rodwell.

Colonel Edward Eric Spencer WHEATLEY, C.B.E., D.F.C., T.D., M.R.C.S., L.R.C.P. The careers of Army officers of this period was extremely varied, but few were as varied as that of Colonel Edward Eric Spencer WHEATLEY, C.B.E., D.F.C., T.D., M.R.C.S., L.R.C.P.. Commissioned into the Royal Garrison Artillery, he was seconded to the Royal Flying Corps; being seriously injured in Salonika but being awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for his service in North Russia. WHEATLEY had to leave the embryonic Royal Air Force in 1919, and then served with an Indian mountain battery. He then transferred to the Royal Army Pay Corps but left the Army in 1932. He qualified as a doctor, joined the Royal Army Medical Corps Territorial Army in 1938 where during the Second World War he served in North Africa, being awarded the Commander of the Order of the British Empire. After the war, WHEATLEY had to have his injured leg removed, and then dedicated his life to helping other amputees. Born into an Army family, his father was Henry Spencer WHEATLEY and his mother Lilley Mary WHEATLEY (nee STEWART). Henry WHEATLEY was a senior officer in the British Indian Army, serving with the Bengal Cavalry, so all his four children were born in India. They were all born in Bengal, India, and their dates of births were: • 21 October 1883 – Mary Esme Spencer WHEATLEY; • 9 September 1886 – Arthur Haldane Spencer WHEATLEY; • 20 January 1892 – Dorothy Irene Spencer WHEATLEY; • 29 October 1898 – Edward Eric Spencer WHEATLEY.

[Simin 1956]

Yes the Irish Rifles connection makes sense. A shame they are two different chaps. No one has explained to me how it made sense to give two men exactly the same names when they were of similar ages and were both going into the army. Apparently in later life the banks used to get confused and my grandfather used to get statements for your great uncle or other bank communications. Which leads me to wonder how they both ended up in the same bank (which was probably Lloyds) 

Edited 29 December , 2022 by Simin 1956