Solid Brass Mills Bomb, training aid or paperweight?

[ServiceRumDiluted]

Knowing of my interest in such things a friend gave me a solid brass mills bomb, a family heirloom apparently. The story is that it was made by a relative at the Vickers works in Sheffield as a training grenade. They were almost immediately cancelled as a waste of brass but this one was retained as a souvenir. Now I have no doubt that my friend believes the story, but it seems to me to be turned not cast and the grooves fairly crudely scored. I think it would have been easier to cast them, and why in brass at all? This leads me to think it may have been a lathe operators unofficial handiwork with an offcut of metal rather than a production piece.

Can any experts shed any light on this? I can't find any reference to official brass grenades. The brass is certainly that old yellowish colour of the time rather than more modern copperish brass. Have I acquired a rare part of the Mills bomb story or just an interesting paperweight? Either way I'm happy with it.

[MikB]

A lathe turner could've made an enormously neater job of it. At least the notchings at right angles to the long axis would've been cut straight and clean with a vee tool, such as a singlepoint screwcutting tool - and the whole appearance of it as it is looks roughly forged or filed, rather than machine-turned.

I wonder if the maker could've started from a reject component that was larger, such as a big shell-fuze or suchlike, and filed it down from there?

How accurately round is it in section? Even if the shape had been filed in a lathe rather than turned, it would be reasonably round - and in the photo it looks lumpy.

Alternatively it may've started as a sandbox casting from a whittled wooden pattern.

Regards,

MikB

[ServiceRumDiluted]

Hi Mik, thanks for your interest. It is actually very round and has distinct lathe marks round the base.

Someone has gone to a lot of effort but really let it down with the creation of the grooves. This could be interpreted as a cheap way of producing a throwable object of the right size/weight/feel for training or as a fairly amateurish home made paperweight. Again I find myself wondering why it wasn't just cheaply cast if it was to be officially mass produced.

I am really intrigued by this item, my heart wants to think it is a rare bit of history, my head says it was someone's school metal work project. I'm really hoping some one comes along saying that in Sept 1915 Vickers WERE commissioned to make some training grenades which were immediately recalled and now are rare as hens teeth... Would be nice!

[Andrew Upton]

The general shape and way the ears for holding the lever and pin are styled on the later WW1 Mills bomb pattern - by which point there were many cheaper, easier and tidier options to produce training grenades than in solid brass. I'm wondering though if it could be something like an early WW2 home-made example for the Home Guard or similar (early accounts have brass door knobs being used for grenade throwing practice!):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mills_bomb

[Ogilwy]

It is a home made example for whatever reason. It is not of a known authorised pattern nor a recorded item made by an Official for whatever purpose.

It comes under the catagory (we in the buisness use) people do Sh*# ! It may well have been a youth showing off their lathe skills or any such reason but after 35 years of dealing with items like this I have learned that if you try to figure these out you will mostly be dissappointed and non the wiser.

Andrew,

Not quite, the ears are shoulders, that the 'Fly Off Lever' is seated upon and through which the 'Safety Pin' passes. Each is located to the side of the 'Striker Channel' through which the Striker protrudes and is held in place through it's engagement in the notch in the Fly Off Lever. Having spent all morning trying to educate troops as to the technical terminology of ammunition I'm still in 'correct mode'!

For Drill we used the same bodys as the live items but painted white and with holes in them to denote Drill. It is not uncommon for 'seconds' to be used for this and I have direct proof that one foundry in Sheffield did exactly that. By 1939 the Mills type Grenade had been in use since the middle of WW1 and the issue and production of Grenade Hand Drill No36 was firmly established. We made throwing practice Grenades from clay and various other patterns were also in use. Improvisation could occur from user to user and is rarely recorded or authorised. If this was a HG Unit making it's own for practice then that fact if not recorded is lost.

Remember Drill is - an inert item permitting the Drills to be carried out.

Practice is - An item of ammunition designed to practice the use of the parent nature with.

The most important thing is however, Drill is INERT. It contains no explosive substance. Practice can contain explosive to achieve an effect when used. So Practice items of ammunition my still be 'Live'!

Now Back to work, oddly with Grenades! Hopefully the little darlings listened this morning - or their afternoon has the possiblity of being decidedly unpleasent and shouty!

Rod

[ServiceRumDiluted]

Many thanks, my hunch confirmed. Your replies are appreciated.

[Khaki]

Is it hollow or solid, I don't think it is military in the strict sense, I get the impression it is unfinished, if hollow may have been for a coin bank? or perhaps as a casting for part of a bronze memorial ??

khaki

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The story is that it was made by a relative at the Vickers works in Sheffield as a training grenade.

As has been said already, this item is somebody's unofficial handiwork or possibly some form of ' Trench Art '.

WW1 Mills training grenades were actual Mills grenades minus the explosives, some still had all the internal parts if being used for instruction, and some were empty or filled with sand if being just used for throwing practice.

Normally, training or dummy grenades were painted white to clearly show they were not ' live '.

Attached are some photographs of a WW1 training grenade from my grenade collection.

Regards,

LF

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[Michael Haselgrove]

LF,

A very nice grenade. Thanks for posting. The mark on the lever is interesting - according to my records it is the mark of A. Kendrick & Sons, West Bromwich.

Regards,

Michael.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

it is the mark of A. Kendrick & Sons, West Bromwich.

Regards,

Michael.

Michael,

Yes, that is the maker's mark for A. Kenrick ( without the 'd' ) & Sons, of West Bromwich, who made parts for the Mils grenade.

I have another 3/4 sectional No.36 Mk I Mills Training/Instruction Grenade with its Gas Check Plate with an A. Kenrick & Sons Base Plug dated 10/17 ( October 1917 )

The Gas Check Plate, maker marked J.L & Co., is dated 3/1918 ( March 1918 ).

Regards,

LF

2

[Lancashire Fusilier]

3

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A Kenrick & Sons, West Bromwich, Mills No.36 Mk I Base Plug dated 10/17 ( October 1917 ).

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Reverse of the 3/4 sectional No.36 Mk I Mills Training/Instruction Grenade with its Gas Check Plate.

LF

[Gunner Bailey]

In the Great War Mills training grenades for throwing were made mostly from reject bodies, though some were especially made with all the internals, especially at the end of the war with the Mills 36.

As far as I know there were never plans to make Mills Grenades of brass as it is 1. much more expensive than cast iron and 2. would never shatter in the same way.

The grenade featured is most likely a something made in a factory for a child as a gift, using what material was at hand.

I have seen a much much better made brass Mills 36 that was near perfect but was made as a lighter.

LF's cutaway is a nice example. It's interesting that the white paint has gone yellow over time.

I have a WW1 No 36 training grenade that has the date cast under the makers name (1918). However I believe it was modified to training standard in the 1920's with the addition of 5 holes being drilled in the body. Amazingly the remaining white paint is just about white.

I attach a photo of another type of cutaway No 36.

John