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German Casualty Lists


John Beech
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Afternoon All

I am trying to create a database of German casualties to the Reserve Infantry Regiment 246 from the Verlustlisten. Although I do not speak any German, by a process of trail and error I have been able to work out the main causes of entry, death, missing, slightly wounded, seriously wounded etc. One though is escaping me! I have tried online translators but nothing is coming up. It is not helped by the lists being in Gothic Script.

The spelling appears to be er*ran*t. The missing letters are the same and look like an 'f' but it is not that, 's' or 't'

Can anyone put me out of my misery or give me a translation?

I have tried the same exercise for Leib Grenadier Regiment Nr. 8 but this only brings up 40 casualties can anyone suggest another source for a none German speaker?

Regards

John

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Hi JWK and Daniel

Thanks for your prompt replies

I have been looking on des.genealogy.net/eingabe-verlustlisten/search and entering the regimental number in this case 246. As the names are in alphabetical order, the first one I have come across is Gefreiter Ludwig Alber of 9 Kompanie followed by Gefreiter Reserve Karl Albrecht of 12 Kompanie

Researching Germans in this way is new to me, any idea why there are so few Leib Grenadier Regiment Nr. 8 men and 16 pages of Reserve Infantry Regiment 246 men? Is it just the transcribed lists or where the regiments are from? Leib Grenadier Regiment Nr. 8 were Prussian and RIR 246 Württembergers

Cn you recommend any other German sources I can look at? - I did try the Volksbund Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge, but although I couldn't seem to search in the same way as I do on the CWGC, they do send me a nice bulletin periodically which being in German in can't read!

Knew I should have concentrated more in German at school!

Regards

John

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Hi Siege Gunner

Many thanks this will be most useful going forward. Now I have seen it, the character is definitely a lower case German 'k', confirming the word as erkrank which as you agree translates to ill, I am happy to run with that!

Regards

John

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John,

the Verlustliste were per regiment at the start of the war, but in 1916 or so they changed to alphabetical , so without mention of a regiment.

See e.g. Andreas Ackermann :

List of 5 dec 1914 : wounded , RIR246

List of 28 Nov 1916 : died

so with searching only on Regimental number you get the casualties for 1914/1915 but not the later ones.

JW

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There's a Regimental history, published in 1931 :

Das Württembergische Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 246 / bearbeitet von Louis Orgeldinger.

There's a copy of it in the British Library.

Chances are this book has a list of all casualties.

Here for info on RIR 246 at Bellewaerde (with a partial Verlustliste):

http://bellewaarde1915.co.uk/

And for the Leib Grenadier regiment nr 8 it seems there is a download available of the Regimental history, for 5 euros :

nr 1305 on this page :

http://military-books.lima-city.de/test/preussen.html

Not quite sure it that's the correct one, as http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/Leib_Gren.R_8

calls it "1 Brandenburgisches" and here it's called "2 Brandenburgisches"

Better ask the site-owner Patrick Schallert.

His contact-details are under “Impressum”

Patrick is doing a fantastic job with all these histories, and is adding new books at a regular interval, so maybe RIR 246 is on the list be added in future.

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Hi JWK

Thanks for the update. So if I understand you right, unless I am looking for a specific man, or theoretically start searching from 'A', I cannot find casualties after 1916 using the Verlustlisten by regiment alone. Obviously, anyone previously listed as wounded/ill etc. prior to this date can be searched after 1916 by entering their name only to see if they were later a fatality/further wounded etc.

Is there a source I can generate an alphabetical list of casualties that I can then research via the Verlustlisten? - perhaps from another source? Or an alternative site in perhaps CWGC style format?

As I said, I have also looked at Leib Grenadier Regiment Nr.8 and it only identified about 40 casualties. There is a copy of their regimental history on Abebooks at present, but it runs to over £200 which would be a bit expensive if there is no roll in it.

Will however, download a copy of Leib Grenadier Regiment Nr.8 from http://military-books.lima-city.de/test/preussen.html and speak to Patrick re RIR246

Regards

John

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John,

that's quite a project you're taking on ! Good luck!

As from 7 Dec 1916 the Verlustliste did not mention the regiment anymore, untill late 1918 when they started doing it again.

http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/Verlustlisten_Erster_Weltkrieg

The Regimental Histories will list all the men that died, but not the ones who got wounded (once, twice, three times) but survived the war.

So if you narrow your project to 1914- 7.12.1916 then you'll get all casualties, but after 7th dec 1916 you really need to know the name of the guy to know what had happened to him.

Why there are so few Leib Regiment men on the Verlustliste I don't know. Have you tried some of the names, see if they are assigned a different regiment, or in a different spelling, in other entries?

Let us know how you get on !

JW

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Hi JWK

At least I cant be accused of avoiding a challenge!

My primary interest is 1st Northumberland Fusiliers, but Leib Grenadier Nr.8 faced them at Mons and RIR246 faced them at Bellewaarde when my relative was killed. May be a big ask, but will see where it takes me.

Regards

John

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I attempted a similar project for all the men of Fulda, Germany (with a focus on my grandfather's Feldartillerie regiment), and I had to throw in the towel as I soon discovered that the project was far too massive to take on alone, especially given all my other ongoing projects.

Good luck!

-Daniel

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Thanks Daniel

As I mentioned above I am already part way through a similar project for 1st Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers. As the winter comes, I will need something to occupy me so it seemed a good idea to start now. I don't I realise what I am letting myself in for!

Regards

John

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JWK, thanks for the link to the Military-Books site. I wasn't aware of this before, but it's an amazing resource. German unit histories are quite hard to obtain in the UK and the download prices seem very reasonable.

All the best, John

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  • 5 months later...

Many regimental histories don't have an honour roll, or if they do the information is fairly basic. In some cases a separate honour roll was published after the publication of the regimental history, and this appears to have usually been the case with Württemberg infantry regiments, including RIR246.

https://portal.dnb.de/opac.htm?method=showFullRecord&currentResultId=%22Reserve%22+and+%22Infanterie%22+and+%22246%22%26any&currentPosition=0


There's a copy of it in the British Library.

Chances are this book has a list of all casualties.

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Ken

Thanks for this a new source for me, so will give it a look

Regards

John

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Hello,

RIR 246 has a separate published Ehrentafel (as most Württemberg units): Ehrenbuch des württembergischen Reserve-Infanterie-Regiments Nr. 246.

The units of the Verlustlisten aren't completely searchable as far as I know.

I checked and the regimental history of Leib-Grenadier-Regiment 8 doesn't have an Ehrentafel...

Jan

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Jan

Thanks for this

Regards

John

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

Do you know about this here? Maybe when you search in another context.

http://www.denkmalprojekt.org/covers_vl/vl_wk1_index.htm

It contains the Verlustenlisten of different units. Unfortunately it is not complete. So the unit you were searching for are not on it (the one I was searching for not either).

The same webpage also contains this part:

http://www.denkmalprojekt.org/covers_de/deutschland.htm

listing the soldiers that died in WW1 and WW2, which are listed on monuments in German towns.

Of course also not complete, but the list is quite long. Fulda in Hessen is not on it.

Christine

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Thanks for mentioning the list of monuments in German towns, Christine!

I never knew there still is a monument in Nordhorn with the name of my gr-grandfather on it.

I only knew he was mentioned on a plaque which used to be on a building demolished many decades ago.

Roel

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Hi Christine

thanks for the information. I will follow it up

Regards

John

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Have you used the „Ehrenbuch der Gefallenen Stuttgarts 1914–1918“?

http://www.denkmalprojekt.org/Gedenkbuecher/stuttgart_eb_wk1_a.htm

Just some of the names starting with "A".

Johannes Abt

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/1401068

August Ackermann

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/439158

Hans Ade

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/644074

Karl Adler

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/937792

Robert Alker

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/1230223

etc. etc.

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