Good, better, best

[Chasemuseum]

_{As an old fossil, who has had the opportunity to fire most WW1 rifles live in fire and movement range drills, I favour the SMLE. I admit bias, it was the first rifle I trained with as a school cadet and the first I ever fired. Incorrectly prepared clips will jam the magazine, which is not a problem for any rimless cartridge. Mausers with front locking lugs give a more accurate rifle, but are more vulnerable to jamming in sandy conditions (the Malabar rifle range). The various M98 Mauser action derivatives are my second choice, particularly an M38 Arisaka carbine in 6.5mm. The M95 Mannlicher straight-pull, Lebel, Mannlicher-berthier, Nagant, Ross, Carcano, Veguiro-mauser and earlier Mausers are all inferior.}

_{I even used a SMLE with WE08 up against the L1A1 SLR and M68 field equipment on a regimental fire and movement shoot over 600m at Malabar. I did not get nearly as many shots off, but I had the 2^nd from top score for the day.}

_{Jungle experience in WW2 saw the development of the SMLE No5 and the various Australian experimentals all based on the SMLE No1 MkIII*. In trench warfare these would have been more versatile weapons, but a No5 with the No5 knife bayonet would have been unthinkable to the military establishment of WW1 as an infantry weapon.}

_{As a cartridge I favour 7mm mauser, it takes a bit of edge of the recoil and seems to have less muzzle blast when used with a carbine. The post WW2 Spanish police M98 mauser carbine in 7.62NATO has an absolutely wicked muzzle blast. A friend used to use one at the range, even with shooting earmuffs the noise was painful, everyone would leave the mound until he was finished.}

_{I consider pistols as irrelevant. Certainly they were useful in trench fighting in the close confines of a trench, but otherwise they are a non-event. Very few soldiers today could hit a moving man at 25metres with one. The level of training required to be effective with a pistol does not occur in the military now and not in WW1. What Hollywood portrays is total fiction. When guarding prisoners, a rifle is always preferable to a pistol. Even at point blank range it’s too easy to over power a guard armed with a pistol, very much harder if he has a rifle. I do not recommend you try, but any automatic, if you can push up against the muzzle, the breach will unlock and the pistol cannot fire.}

_{Machine-guns, unfortunately I have not live fired Vickers, Maxim, Lewis or Hotchkiss. They all have numerous weaknesses. They are all fragile, too heavy and require a high level of training to be efficient. Mind, I carried an M60 for 5 years and it was heavy, fragile and the soldiers needed a lot of training to learn how to manage it’s spectrum of stoppages.}

_{For mortars, the Stokes 3-inch must win hands down. Look at the immense range of mortars employed in the war and how the Brandt 81mm series was developed after the was based on the Stokes and how this became almost universal and is still essentially the model in use today.}

_Cheers

_Ross

[Beerhunter]

As noted the P08 was way too delicate and not easy to get out of it's totally enclosed holster.

Even with the he P08's holsters neat trick?

[Beerhunter]

_{. I do not recommend you try, but any automatic, if you can push up against the muzzle, the breach will unlock and the pistol cannot fire.}

I should like to see you try that with my Webley 1908 or any blowback operated pistol.

Actually I'd like to see you do it even to a locked-breech pistol.

Edited 6 November , 2014 by Beerhunter

[Khaki]

_{As an old fossil, who has had the opportunity to fire most WW1 rifles live in fire and movement range drills, I favour the SMLE. I admit bias, it was the first rifle I trained with as a school cadet and the first I ever fired. Incorrectly prepared clips will jam the magazine, which is not a problem for any rimless cartridge. Mausers with front locking lugs give a more accurate rifle, but are more vulnerable to jamming in sandy conditions (the Malabar rifle range). The various M98 Mauser action derivatives are my second choice, particularly an M38 Arisaka carbine in 6.5mm. The M95 Mannlicher straight-pull, Lebel, Mannlicher-berthier, Nagant, Ross, Carcano, Veguiro-mauser and earlier Mausers are all inferior.}

_{I even used a SMLE with WE08 up against the L1A1 SLR and M68 field equipment on a regimental fire and movement shoot over 600m at Malabar. I did not get nearly as many shots off, but I had the 2^nd from top score for the day.}

_{Jungle experience in WW2 saw the development of the SMLE No5 and the various Australian experimentals all based on the SMLE No1 MkIII*. In trench warfare these would have been more versatile weapons, but a No5 with the No5 knife bayonet would have been unthinkable to the military establishment of WW1 as an infantry weapon.}

_{As a cartridge I favour 7mm mauser, it takes a bit of edge of the recoil and seems to have less muzzle blast when used with a carbine. The post WW2 Spanish police M98 mauser carbine in 7.62NATO has an absolutely wicked muzzle blast. A friend used to use one at the range, even with shooting earmuffs the noise was painful, everyone would leave the mound until he was finished.}

_{I consider pistols as irrelevant. Certainly they were useful in trench fighting in the close confines of a trench, but otherwise they are a non-event. Very few soldiers today could hit a moving man at 25metres with one. The level of training required to be effective with a pistol does not occur in the military now and not in WW1. What Hollywood portrays is total fiction. When guarding prisoners, a rifle is always preferable to a pistol. Even at point blank range it’s too easy to over power a guard armed with a pistol, very much harder if he has a rifle. I do not recommend you try, but any automatic, if you can push up against the muzzle, the breach will unlock and the pistol cannot fire.}

_Cheers

_Ross

Sorry Ross,

I can't agree, which army are you talking about? The US army has always given considerable time to pistol and revolver training. If you are guarding a prisoner or prisoners, there is no way that you should allow one to get that close to you unless he is being searched, in which case he should be covered by a second soldier with a weapon trained on him.

khaki

[RodB]

The Karabiner 98AZ was indeed a late-war primary arm (especially of der Sturmtruppen) and provides the best all-round contender from the Germanic side.

It's compact size and turned down bolt were important factors. The Germans voted with their feet arming their best troops, and carrying it through into WW2.

Cheers, S>S

700.jpg500.jpg

The original Bundesarchiv for above left photo indeed reads "Deutscher Soldat an der Westfront, Stoss- bzw. Sturmtrupp mit einem Karabiner 98a-Gewehr" dated 1916. Somehow, the Wikipedia version got stuff about "on the Somme in 1916" attached. If this is a "stormtrooper" with 98a wouldn't 1918 be more probable ?

[Beerhunter]

Sorry Ross,

I can't agree, which army are you talking about? The US army has always given considerable time to pistol and revolver training. If you are guarding a prisoner or prisoners, there is no way that you should allow one to get that close to you unless he is being searched, in which case he should be covered by a second soldier with a weapon trained on him.

khaki

Nor would that lunatic suggestion about pushing against the muzzle actually work.

[Khaki]

There is a well known photograph, I believe taken in Ireland, with a British officer searching a suspect, whilst a second soldier with a trained cocked webley revolver provides 'backup'

khaki

[Beerhunter]

There is a well known photograph, I believe taken in Ireland, with a British officer searching a suspect, whilst a second soldier with a trained cocked webley revolver provides 'backup'

khaki

That was still SOP in the British Army in my time. (1970/80s) In fact the searcher should not be armed at all.

[Khaki]

I am sure you mean the 'searcher' and I agree , however in a battle zone that may not always be practical.

khaki

[Beerhunter]

I am sure you mean the 'searcher' and I agree , however in a battle zone that may not always be practical.

khaki

Spot on. Now corrected. I don't recall that rule ever being relaxed.

This reminds me of a TV documentary about Thames Valley police some years back. In one scene, having searched a suspect and found no weapons on him, an armed member of the ARU got into the back seat of the police car with him. (The search was a bloody farce as well.) I said to my wife at the time: "God help them if they ever have to deal with a real armed incident." This was not long before Hungerford.

[Gunner Bailey]

Mills No 36 Hand Grenade. In production 1917-1972 in the UK without change. A near perfect design.

Far more lethal than the German Grenades.

John