Trench mortar batteries

[munce]

Officers serving with 6th Divisional Trench Mortar Batteries, 30th November 1917:

Capt. J.G. Newell, W. Yorks Rgt (Commanding)

W/6 (Heavy) TM Battery

Capt R.A. Levinge, RFA

Lieut D. Ross (General List)

2/Lieut V.E. Wait, 11th Essex Rgt

X/6 (Medium) TM Battery

Lieut A. Avery, KSLI

2/Lieut W.H. Thomas, Leicester Rgt

Y/6 (Medium) TM Battery

Lieut W. Johnston, MC, RFA

2/Lieut T.A.B. Copestake, RFA

Z/6 (Medium) TM Battery

Lieut M.R. Anderson, MC (General List)

2/Lieut L.G. Butler, 11th Essex Rgt

So infantry officers seem to outnumber gunners by around 2:1, even in the medium and heavy batteries.

[battiscombe]

with 2nd Div TMBs

V/2 TMB seems to have been formed with men from 44th Brigade and the 2nd DAC

X/2 with men from 2nd DAC [one man who had served in 36th Bde may also have been in 36th BAC)

Y/2 had men from 41st Bde and 44th Bde and 2nd DAC

Z/2 mainly 2nd DAC, a couple from 36th Brigade [ex-71st Bty]

the 2nd Division Quartermaster records [WO95/1307] provide returns on unit strengths/casualties/sick lists [no names] which include the TMBs

great photo of Y/2 - thanks for sharing that.

[Guest Varze]

I'm a new member as of a few minutes ago and may have some information of interest regarding Trench Howitzer batteries during WW1. With ANZAC Day around the corner, I've been reading some papers shared with me by my late Grandfather. These papers are fascinating and detailed. They relate to my Grandfather's older half brother, Harold Jerram, who served in France with the BEF in 1915. He was a member of the 33rd Trench Howitzer Battery which was a part of 45th Company, RGA, deployed in France with the 2nd Army. He died of shrapnel wounds in 8 Casualty Clearing Station located in Bailleul on July 18th, 1915, having sustained his injury on July 12th 1915. I have letters prior to deployment, letters written from the trenches, postcards, and then letters from his OC (written on field notebook paper) informing Harold's Father of his injury, then his death. There is a joint letter of condolence written to his Father, co-signed by many of then men from the battery. There is a letter from a nurse in 8 casualty clearing station, as well as one from (I believe - signatures are difficult to read) a chaplain on the night he was dying. This includes a note to Harold's Father dictated to the chaplain, his last message. And concludes with a P.S. explaining that Harold had died during the night. I have the official letters back to the OC of the RGA company from 8 Casualty Clearing Station notifying them of Harold's death. I even have his identity disc. I also have a Range Table in excellent condition for the 3.7inch Trench Howitzer, Mark III. I'll attempt to attach a photograph of this. I'm in the process of transcribing the many letters and would be happy to pass these copies on to anyone who may have an interest. Please PM me if you'd like more information.

[Guest Varze]

As mentioned in my previous post, here are a couple of pictures that may be of interest.

[hubbar49]

I think they called that mortar a "Crapouillot" (litteraly, a little toad)

[battiscombe]

Varze - very interesting to see Gnr Jerrams name here - there is not much information available on many early Trench Mortar/Howitzer units. The unit was formed only 25th June 1915 I believe.. in France .. so presumably he had another unit... those named Trench Howitzer units were usually formed of RGA men it seems.. ... He may have been posted to the Base from his home unit [45th Coy RGA]. Do you know who his c/o was?

[Tyneside Chinaman]

The following is recorded regarding the 103rd |LTMB of the Tyneside Irish Brigade, but I have never seen comments or anything relating to the X & Y Batteries of 34th Div.

It was about now that the 103 Light Trench Mortar Battery was formed,

with the personnel found from all four battalions of the Brigade and

the War Diary of the 26th Battalion records that Second Lieutenant

Brown and 12 other ranks were transferred to the new unit.

The CSM came from D Company of the 27th Battalion when Sergeant

Richard Madden from Washington was promoted to Company Sergeant Major

to fill the vacancy. CSM Madden was to be wounded on 1 July 1916 and

subsequently awarded the DCM and the MM with a Mention in Despatches.

The Battery was commanded by Captain D H James from the 24th

Battalion.

The Brigade Light Trench Mortar Battery was not very popular with

some of those who served in the front line. Captain Jack Fleming

described the activities of the Battery to Bob Falkous in a letter:

'My pet aversion, Trench Mortars! Why my pet aversion I'll tell you.

The TM Officer here it's the softest job in the Brigade. He stays

well behind the firing line and calls up with his satellites

occasionally to do a strafe. Locates himself behind a bay and lets

fly a dozen or so at the Hun and retires not too gracefully to his

lair. Now the Hun with all his faults is some strafer and he always

acknowledges receipt. We get the receipt, while the unmentionable

TMO is taking his tea in perfect safety somewhere.'

Very reminiscent of the "shoot and scoot" of the AIF.

regards

John

[kildaremark]

Thanks for the latest contributions to this topic especially the battery photograph.

There seems to be a scarcity of photographs relating to these units, presumably because they were primarily created near the Front rather than starting from home. I would certainly welcome any further photographs of Trench Mortar Batteries.

Mark

[kevinrowlinson]

May be of interest.

The 1915 Army Order published establishment for a Trench Mortar Battery was;

War Establishment, consisting of 4 Mortars

2 Officers, 1 Serjeant, 4 Corporals or Bombardiers, 16 Gunners, 2 Batmen.

Note 1.

Batteries are composed of 1.5 inch, 2 inch, 4 inch, and 4 pounder (improved 3.7 inch) mortars only

Note 2.

Personell, up to a maximum of 50%, may be drawn from arms other than Artillery.

Kevin

[kildaremark]

Thanks Kevin

I presume that document relates to what were originally called trench howitzer batteries i.e. the medium trecnh mortar units formed at the various Trench Mortar Schools before they were redesignated X, Y and Z batteries and later V heavy battery with the relevant Division.

I would imagine that the light (stokes) mortar batteries at brigade level were more than 50% infantry.

Mark

[kevinrowlinson]

Hi Mark,

As far as I know the various numbered batteries before reorganisation were a mixture of both, depending on exactly what ordnance they were using. I believe that the above establishment was the beginning of trying to organise them into the various types they would become. It just says "Trench Mortar Battery" as a heading. This establishment would stay the same for medium batteries with the light batteries having roughly twice the personnel and should have been all infantrymen, although whether they would have had artillery officers attached at times I don't know. In the diary for 22 TMB, when formed in March 1915, they started with roughly the same number of personnel as the LTMB would later, although it must have been made up of mainly artillerymen. It would appear to me it wasn't until nearly the end of 1915 that they started to try to put some order to these batteries until eventually the reorganisation of March/April 1916 when they were finally organised.

In the vast majority of records for men I have seen who served with these batteries, whether early or late, the RGA normally used TMB and Trench Howitzer School, normally "THS" in records. In another diary I noticed that the OC seemed to use both during 1915, sometimes writing "THBty" at the top of the page, and sometimes "TMBty".

Regards Kevin

[Y2 TMB]

In defence of DTMO's, taken from my grandfathers diary July 28th 1916 records the relief from the 5th Division trying to reach their position in Longueval. " the Bom'd who was the leading man got killed outright, Cpl next wounded in ankle and the Officer who was last got three pieces of shell in his body. The officer was the 5th Div DTMO who was trying to get to us for the purpose of taking over."

It's pretty well documented that Trench Mortar Battery's weren't exactly popular with the Infantry. Working parties from adjacent infantry units were used as carrying parties for ammunition and also for helping dig gun emplacements, this along with the inevitable German response when the battery's were in action would hardly endear TMB's to the PBI.

Phil

[johnmelling1979]

Hello

I am wondering if anyone know much about

Y66 Trench Mortar Bty, Royal field Artillery

Y.66 Medium Mortar Battery, RFA part of the 66th Division after arrival in France,

in the February of 1917.

im researching a soldiers service for my website

Cheers

John

[Catandcabbage]

Hi, I have a interest in how a light trench mortar battery would have operated. I get the mechanics of it all and the Long Long Trail provides the staffing levels as:-

Light Trench Mortar Battery (2 Sections, each of four 3-inch Stokes mortars)

Captain, 3 Lieutenants or Second Lieutenants, 2 Sergeants, 8 Corporals or Lance-Corporals, 32 Privates, 4 Batmen.

​Can anybody tell me what they did during an allied attack. Would they take their mortars and advance behind the infantry taking up positions in taken trenches or would they remain in our trenches until ordered forward to set up after the battle ?

Thanks in advance Rob

[sotonmate]

You could read a War Diary for a short period in order to see how they operated. Here is a sample from 16 TMB of 16 Infantry Brigade of 6 Division for Aug 1916 on the Somme:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352342

[Catandcabbage]

Good idea, thanks, I will try this suggestion.

Rob

[kildaremark]

The following extract from a document from March 1916 on the organisation of trench mortar batteries. The staff mentioned above would appear to differ from 1916 when both medium and light batteries had 25 members.

Mark

7. Principles underlying above Organization

The tactical principles on which this organisation is based are:-

- The Medium Mortars are weapons of position, unfitted by their own weight and the wight of their ammunition to accompany Infantry in the actual assault, though they will move forward in support as soon as possible.

- The Light Mortars are especially suitable for sending forward with the Infantry in the assault, and it will usually be advisable to hold at least some of them in hand for this purpose.

[IRC Kevin]

In its attack against Riencourt in 1918, 2/5th King's Own was allocated a section from 170 LTMB for the attack. This was commanded by Lt Stevens and kept in close contact behind the attacking troops, engaging enemy targets whenever the opportunity arose. One round landed close behind a position occupied by fifteen of the enemy, who promptly raised their hands and surrendered. Some 1,500 yards into the advance, Lt Stevens was wounded and Cpl Henry Haslam of the Loyals took charge and led the mortar section forward to their objective. At one point, the mortar men were so far advanced that they found themselves in the midst of the enemy and had to fend these off with rifle fire. Apart from Lt Stevens, just one other man was wounded and out of the fifty-two rounds they carried with them, only eight were lost—the remainder all striking enemy targets. For his leadership, Henry Haslam was awarded the DCM.

The left battalion (2/4th LNL) attacking Hendecourt were brought to a stop within 50-yards of their jumping off point by three machine gun nests in the cemetery. Lt Mayon’s section from 170 LTMB destroyed one of these guns with a direct hit, the second immediately surrendering before they shared the same fate. The third gun crew took flight and were engaged by rifle fire and the advance resumed.

The only issue concerning the use of light mortars as part of the attacking wave that was raised in the post-operation narrative, was the problem of transporting ammunition and it was suggested that in future each infantry battalion should designate one of its SAA wagons to carry mortar rounds—the likelihood being that no battalion would require all its small arms ammunition reserves at the same time. The post-operation analysis regarded the use of LTMB as part of the attacking force as invaluable, especially when mortar section commanders used their own initiative to engage targets when they saw the infantry held up, rather than waiting for orders from the infantry company-commanders to filter through to them.

[Chris Henschke]

Immediately after Zero Stokes mortars could be used to supplement the 18-pr. barrage on the front or support trenches, their fire being directed especially against machine-gun emplacements, or any strong point which required extra treatment. Owing to the rapid rate of fire that could obtained by Stokes mortars, they were often be employed against a trench strongly held by the enemy with concealed machine guns, previous to an attack.

During the Advance, once the infantry crossed the enemy’s front line, the Stokes mortars had to be moved forward before they could be employed again.

At this stage of the assault their tasks were often ;

(a.) In assaulting an isolated machine gun which was holding up the attack.

(b.) In supporting bombers working down a trench, either by forming a creeping barrage down the trench in front of them, which may drive the enemy from the trench or other cover to be dealt with by Lewis guns ; or by putting a standing barrage well in front of the bombers to prevent reinforcements or bombs coming up ; or the two may be combined.

(c.) In blocking captured trenches by placing a barrage beyond the part to be blocked.

(d.) In repelling counter-attacks, during the consolidation of a position.

(e.) In firing on the enemy hidden in craters.

To overcome opposition, a short hurricane bombardment of a few minutes, followed by a quick attack by infantry that had worked forward as far as possible to rush the instant the bombardment lifted.

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Kildaremark

The establishments for March 1916 you quote in post 4 were superseded in August 1916. In the link posted by researchingreg you will find details of the new establishments for light, medium and heavy TMBs.

Ron

[kildaremark]

Thanks Ron

Forgot about the photo in that link - the only one I have seen of a medium TMB.

Incidentally, my reading of war diaries now suggests that the X/nn and Y/nn batteries were made up of RGA and RFA personnel initially from base with the Z/nn batteries generally made up from Divisional artillery personnel of the particular division where they were formed in March 1916. Replacements then came from the relevant FA brigade or DAC that they were administratively assigned to at the particular time thus reducing the number of RGA gunners in these batteries as the war went on as RGA gunners were replaced by RFA gunners in the divisional artillery.

Mark

[bob lembke]

I often insert a description of how the Huns did things, which seems to be of considerable interest to some of the

Forumites, who are largely Brit oriented, and probably of no interest to others. Here goes.

German light trench mortars were (I think, I have been away from this for a while) 60 mm, the mediums were 170 mm, the

heavy 245 mm. My father fought in the German flamethrower regiment, which was a Prussian Guard formation. They dislikedrelying on other units, partially due to their special sometimes counter-intuitive tactics, which other troops often

did not understand. These tactics sometimes required special weapons, and they had a workshop company in France which

made some of their special weapons.

One was their trench mortars. The workshop company made a special light trench mortar that weighed about 45 lbs. This

was possible mostly by fashioning a special, light base. This could be worn on the back of one man like a back-pack.

Other men carried a special backpack which held about eight mortar rounds. In the second half of the war the standard

light flame-thrower model, the Wex, also weighed about 45 lbs. These were all slightly lighter than the typical German

field pack. Other men carried captured French light machine guns that also were especially light. (If men brought in

these MGs a bounty was paid into the company relief fund for the EM/ORs.) Other men were specially trainer grenadiers. Besides their flame-throwers and spare flame tanks, the men all had crew served weapons or sacks of grenades, in fact

none of the men carried rifles. Some NCOs may have carried carbines. A rifle with a bayonet was considered too long andunwieldly for effective employment in the trenches. Instead, some men carried carefully sharpened spades for close-up

fighting.

In this fashion the entire flame-thrower company could advance very quickly, and still bring up their mortars and

machine guns up with them at top speed. The men were specially selected for fitness and generally all were under 25

years of age. I have the complete death roll of the regiment, and detailed descriptions of most flame thrower attacks

in the war, and in most flame attacks these elite troops did not lose a single man, "lost" meaning killed, missing, or fatally wounded.

Not trying to change the topic of the thread, but to present another approach to trench mortar mobility.

[Coopfooty]

In transporting the trench mortar weaponry, were horses used? My wife's grandfather (1/5th Battalion King's Liverpool Regiment) was assigned to a Trench Mortar Battery unit in October 1917, and as a carter (horse and cart) by trade, I wondered if his transfer was linked to his skills as a horseman?

[Ron Clifton]

It seems not, because the establishments I quoted in the thread given in the link in post 7 do not include any Drivers. However, they must have moved them somehow, so they may have borrowed transport from an infantry battalion, artillery brigade or ASC divisional train as required. In that case, horse-drawn as opposed to mechanical transport was more likely to be used.

Ron

[A crooked MP]

I have been looking at 47 Div trench mortar batteries and can supply some information on this subject. It appears that troops used barrows to move kit, hence manually pushing them. (source G'pa war diary). In WO95/2744 for 142 TMB within the space of a week they are first moving all kit up to near the line by hand (40 boxes of shells), then mentioning hand carts, and a week later difficulty in moving TM trucks through woods. Also it appears that in the case of large scale theatre moves they entrained and moved off at the other end to staging areas by lorries switching to hand carts and sheer manual labour while approaching or relieving the front lines. In the 3 yrs worth of personal diary I have my grandfather never mentions any establishment of horses or trucks, just occasionally that they loaded trucks or limbers. I have also seen in some of the HQ diaries ops orders of men being tasked to push loaded trams on the many small gauge tramlines behind the lines when relieving other units. Mainly hard manual labour it seems.