Weapons And the law

[ramc195]

Hi can sombody help me out

I am thinking of collecting some of the second world War Wepons. Where do i stand with the police, Do i need to hold a fire arms certificate if i have a deactivated certificate with the wepon or not.

[Max Poilu]

Hi,

Not sure exactly which weapons you are thinking of collecting but any info you may need can be found here:

http://www.met.police.uk/firearms-enquiries/

Any reputable dealer will also be able to give help and advice, all his deactivated items should carry relevent certificates. Properly deactivated rifles etc do not require a firearms certificate, this is something else altogether.

[zephyr4]

If the weapon is a deactivated properly it should be stamped with the proof house marks, if the certificate has been lost you should be able to get a new one from the proof house.

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

There is a lobby in Parliament at the moment which is trying to outlaw the ownership of replica and deactivited firearms. Their campaign is gaining a lot of momentum and mya lead to legislation in the next parliament through a private members bill. Perhaps you would be better off contacting the Police before spending your hard earned dosh.

[Max Poilu]

Ian,

Interesting thoughts. There have certainly been a number of reports on news channels this year that would back up your comments. As ever, something has to be seen to be done even though the net result is that the real criminals will still get away with murder while the innocent collectors suffer.

So much easier than really tacking the gun crime problem.

However, I spoke to one of the Ryton Arms execs' at Military Odyssey this year and he seemed certain a replica/de-act ban would not happen. He has rather a vested interest of course.

[zephyr4]

Most of the problems start with stupid comments from the press and tv who say these deactivated weapons can be reactivated in no time at all which is utter rubbish.

[mcderms]

This site has some interesting pieces DeAct Weapons

[harribobs]

There is a lobby in Parliament at the moment which is trying to outlaw the ownership of replica and deactivited firearms. Their campaign is gaining a lot of momentum and mya lead to legislation in the next parliament through a private members bill.

The authorites would have a huge problem if they tried to enforce a ban on de-acts. I am sure the proof houses keep records of the weapons they de-activate but once they are in the public domain there are no records required or kept for the sale or purchase of them, and as anyone who has visited an arms fair will understand it is very easy to own one

Add to that a huge trade in replica weapons (which to my mind) are more likely to be used in crime, which again have been on open sale for years and years

Hence no one knows who has got what and why

As it has been stated by Giles, it would be much easier to go for the de-act collecter with a P08 luger or a SMLE rather than a drugs dealer with a Uzi, so i would be greatly surprised to hear they want them handed in (with no compensation of course)

[Barry Q]

There is a lobby in Parliament at the moment which is trying to outlaw the ownership of replica and deactivited firearms. Their campaign is gaining a lot of momentum and mya lead to legislation in the next parliament through a private members bill. Perhaps you would be better off contacting the Police before spending your hard earned dosh.

It's true that there is a small group of MP's that are lobbying for a ban on de-acts and replicas. However, The Government has said that a ban on replicas (or imatation) guns isn't possible because they're not able to define a replica (or imatation) gun in the legal sense (A toy Star Trek Phaser is still a replica or imatation).

I supremely doubt that any action will be taken against de-acts. The Government has questioned (via the Firearms Consultitive document) the value of registering (read: Licencing) de-acts. If you consider the failure the licencing of 'Brococks' earlier this year (there are still around 68000 unlicenced 'Brococks' in the UK), making moves against de-acts is at best futile.

Personally, I'm still happy to spend money on de-acts and replicas. Let's face it, many weapons that get deactivated are coming from Government arsenals anyway.

[zephyr4]

I don't think the government will take the licensing brockocks as a failure, You cannot buy them new or second hand and it was illegal to keep without applying for a firearms certificate so sooner or later they will disappear, and they will be more than happy to prosecute people who get found with one.

IN YEARS TO COME ONLY CROOKS AND THE GOVERMENT WILL HAVE GUNS.

PS. nice luger harribob

[Guest shenkursk]

Sorry to hear about all the trouble! It is well-known that most of the gun laws impact only ordinarily honest citizens, but make the politicians feel and look as though they are doing something about crime.

This is the perspective of a Missourian, though, so perhaps a bit alien to your situation. In our state a law-abiding citizen who passes a background check and short training course can carry a live loaded pistol on his belt while grocery shopping if he really wants to. Criminals are a bit more... timid than they used to be, and crime went down - not up.

The nice thing that most of you from England and Belgium have over us in the USA is the rather gentle and completely sensible deactivation regulations for firearms. The de-act machine guns that I bought in Belgium were in excellent condition. They could not be made to fire, but still looked great for display. In the USA, these must be literally cut in half with a torch to comply with regulations! When a collector tries to patch them back together for his display, they appear more Frankenstein than firearm.

Good luck!

[BMoorhouse]

The Government has said that a ban on replicas (or imatation) guns isn't possible because they're not able to define a replica (or imatation) gun in the legal sense (A toy Star Trek Phaser is still a replica or imatation).

In the UK Section 18 Firearms Act 1968 makes it an offence to have a firearm or imitation firearm with intend to cause an indictable offence. Granted this usually applies where someone tries to hold up the corner post office with 'something' hidden in a bag, there is usually no problem in defining immitation in these circumstances.

Collectors should be aware that the new Section 51A Firearms Act 1968 (Already introduced by the 2003 Criminal Justice Act) introduces minimum mandatory 5 year sentences for adults in possession of certain prohibited weapons, many of which will have military origins.

My advice would be to make sure what the law is VERY carefully before buying anything.

Brendon.

[Tim Birch]

I believe it is now (or soon will be) an offence to carry a replica, which I presume will include de-acts, in a public place. So when transporting it you should ideally have it wrapped and if possible in a gun case.

There have been several instances of the police shooting dead people carrying replicas in a provocative way. Whilst most sane people are unlikely to start threatening the public with a de-act, there is definitely an increased risk of an incident if you are seen carrying one and reported to the police. It is understandable in these days of heightened tension generally that there could be a tendancy for a police marksman to shoot first and ask questions afterwards.

Tim

[NIGEL]

Especially if you happen to be carrying a table leg wrapped in a carrier bag, a police marksman is allowed to shoot you dead and not be prosicuted for it

[Jason Robins]

Just to add a degree of flipancy to an otherwise serious debate, a certain London based radio station sent out one of their DJ's out on to the streets of London wearing a Balaclava, following all the news coverage of the 150th anniversary of the charge of the Light Brigade. He walked near to the Palaces and also around Grosvenor Square. Apparantly two separate security services, including the Royal protection squad had contacted the station within 30 minutes with comments like "this a juvenile prank" and "your man was in our sights and we could have taken him out at any time!"

Probably not surprising reaction in the current climate but it did make me chuckle on a bleak October morn.

Hence even a humble balaclava could get you into bother - does this mean customs will question me intensely when our go across to the Somme in November armed with my trusty head protector!?