Archibald the Jam-Tin Trench Mortar

[Guest]

1st Bn Worcestershire Regt war diary for new years eve 1914 records an improvised trench mortar:

"12 Midnight. We opened rapid fire on the Germans, our artillery also fired a "Salvo". We also fired several bombs from our trench mortar commonly and officially known as "ARCHIBALD". It was invented by Capt PEARS RE and consists of an iron drain pipe about 2 feet long with a butt end. It fires a jam tin filled with gun cotton and iron rivets and nails. Black blasting powder is used as the charge which is ignited by a piece of slow fuse being stuck into the touch hole.

Does anyone have any further info on this? Was this a one-off or were they manufactured for more battalions? Curious to know more....... MG

[centurion]

Tended to be made by the Royal Engineers rather than Infantry Battalions as appears to be the case in the example you quote (" It was invented by Capt PEARS RE.") There are reports of a number being made and used. Similar improvised mortars were also produced by engineer units on Gallipoli. Engineers also tended to produce the Jam Tin grenades

[Simon Jones]

If I remember rightly, the jam tin mortar in the Royal Engineers Museum has Archibald painted on the barrel so perhaps it is the very same?

[Guest]

Thanks.. I am familiar with the general idea that the RE led the way in improvised equipment and the jam tin grenade but I was unaware that the improvised mortars launched jam-tin ammo..... Thinking about it, what else would they launch, there being no mortars or mortar ammunition. The Indian Sappers and Miners had a strong reputation for improvised kit too.

Curious to know the source of 'Archibald'... anyone have a photo of Archibald in the RE Museum? Was Archibald a specific mortar or a generic name? i.e. was it similar to giving a tank a name?

MG

[Ron Clifton]

Martin

I have a book of captioned photographs produced by Odhams Press in about 1933/4, called The Pageant of the Century. It covers the period 1900 to 1933.

One of the captions is as follows.

Early type of French anti-aircraft guns in use in November 1914. In Britain this weapon was termed an "Archie" from an old music-hall song "Archibald! Certainly not!"- in reference to their inefficacy in early days.

Perhaps the caption got the weapon wrong, or the term may have been applied to both weapons.

Ron

[centurion]

There was a popular song at the time, in each verse an amorous swain would make a suggestion to the girl which had an element of double entendre (not unlike the much later Dick Emery running gag) oniy to be met with "Archibald, certainly not!" One of the early RFC types is reputed to have used the refrain every time a particular German AA gun fired at his aircraft from which the generic Archie is said to derive. I wonder if there was a similar sort of connection to the song in this case.

[paulgranger]

Isn't 'Archibald' the source of 'Archie' the generic term for anti-aircraft artillery? Based on a music-hall chorus 'Archibald, certainly not!' but I don't know the song title in full.

Isn't 'Archibald' the source of 'Archie' the generic term for anti-aircraft artillery? Based on a music-hall chorus 'Archibald, certainly not!' but I don't know the song title in full.

What Centurion said just before me.

[Guest]

Very interesting... I had been thinking along the lines of ballistics and the arched flight of a mortar projectile..... the music hall links is worth exploring. Thank you. Fascinating.

[centurion]

Very interesting... I had been thinking along the lines of ballistics and the arched flight of a mortar projectile.....

Mortars (and for that matter howitzers) had been in use for centuries and one would have thought that since gthdee time Newton's Laws of Motion had been published the trajectory was well known the name would have come up quite often if that were the origin

[Guest]

The inventor Capt Pears just popped up in the 2nd Bn Northamptonshire Regt diary... he had bee in Cairo on leave at the outbreak. When the 8th Div got to Blighty, everyone was given 48 hrs leave. I wonder if Pears took in a shaow and saw song performed. Does anyone know which production it was part of and whether it was playing in Oct 1914 - I assume if it was popular it would have been all the rage at the time. ....MG

[centurion]

Written and performed by George Robey ("The Prime Minister of Mirth") and around for some time (For example Harry Saddler was singing it to rave reviews in Australia and New Zealand in late 1910). It was performed in shows all over the Empire and in the USA.. Robey recorded it and it was an early best selling hit. Air Vice-Marshal Amyas Eden Borton CB, CMG, DSO, AFC is credited with having applied it to AA in 1914. Pears could have heard it anywhere including on a mess gramophone or at a concert party

[Sappershand]

[Chasemuseum]

As a new topic a general review of the WW1 displays at this museum would be much appreciated. The lamp like device next to the German body armour looks particularly interesting.

[Sappershand]

[Chasemuseum]

Thanks, much appreciated