Khaki Posted 29 August , 2014 Share Posted 29 August , 2014 Has anyone done a list of the major retailers of small arms for officers during the GW ? I am interested in their advertising and would like to get an example that I could frame or display , repro including metal would be ok. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 29 August , 2014 Share Posted 29 August , 2014 You could try googling Webley, BSA etc if you have not already done so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 29 August , 2014 Share Posted 29 August , 2014 I think if you look through some of Skennerton's works you will find various lists of members of the gun trade who got contracts for repairs/modifications etc and from whom large numbers of firearms were requisitioned/purchased. I suspect there is a pretty high overlap between these and those who supplied firearms directly to officers. The book I can think of right now (I am away from them) is his book on WWII small arms (which lists contracts etc) and obviously this list may include companies not in existence in WWI and exclude companies that disappeared or changed names between the wars but it might be somewhere to start. I am fairly sure similar lists of the gun trade purchases exist in the National Archive for WWI and TonyE might be your best source for a reference to those. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wig Posted 29 August , 2014 Share Posted 29 August , 2014 Glasgow University has the archives of the Army and Navy Cooperative Society. They were the principal source for the private purchase of sidearms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 29 August , 2014 Share Posted 29 August , 2014 Has anyone done a list of the major retailers of small arms for officers during the GW ? I am interested in their advertising and would like to get an example that I could frame or display , repro including metal would be ok. khaki khaki, Take a look at this link, it has a nice selection of firearm maker labels for sale, including those who produced firearms during WW1. https://www.peterdyson.co.uk/acatalog/TRADE_LABELS.html Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 29 August , 2014 Share Posted 29 August , 2014 Glasgow University has the archives of the Army and Navy Cooperative Society. They were the principal source for the private purchase of sidearms. I saw that but not available on line and a long commute to Glasgow for the OP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dman Posted 29 August , 2014 Share Posted 29 August , 2014 Number of Colt New Service revolvers were used by British forces starting in the Boer War and continuing into WW I New Service was designed for military use and came into service in 1898 British designation was "PISTOL COLT .455 inch, 5.5 inch barrel , MK I" Some 60,000 were supplied to British EMpire forces (UK and Canada, which had bought many of them to supplement earlier Colt 45 "Peacemakeers ) Barrels wer marked .NEW SERVICE 455 ELEY to indicate caliber http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_New_Service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadin Posted 30 August , 2014 Share Posted 30 August , 2014 The Peter Dyson website is quite interesting. Just one question, what does "NLR" stand for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 30 August , 2014 Share Posted 30 August , 2014 The Peter Dyson website is quite interesting. Just one question, what does "NLR" stand for? Good question, Because this labels have a ' Firearm ' connection, the retailer is confirming that in order to purchase them, no licence is required ( NLR ), apparently it is a Government formality. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 30 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 30 August , 2014 Thanks everyone, wow ! what a huge label list, question though, in newspaper advertising did they 'illustrate' the pistols and if so did they stay with a webley profile or was it definitive to the actual revolvers in stock at the time? khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 30 August , 2014 Share Posted 30 August , 2014 Good question, Because this labels have a ' Firearm ' connection, the retailer is confirming that in order to purchase them, no licence is required ( NLR ), apparently it is a Government formality. Regards, LF Why would you require a licence to buy a label ? Maybe it means that the label design is no longer registered as a trade mark ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 30 August , 2014 Share Posted 30 August , 2014 Why would you require a licence to buy a label ? Maybe it means that the label design is no longer registered as a trade mark ? I actually called Dysons to confirm that it was meaning ' No Licence Required ', and they confirmed that was the meaning, must be to do with red tape firearms laws. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 30 August , 2014 Share Posted 30 August , 2014 There is nothing in British Firearms Acts which requires any sort of licence to buy a label. Maybe some sort of copyright permission ? Anyway, it doesn't really matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 30 August , 2014 Share Posted 30 August , 2014 Number of Colt New Service revolvers were used by British forces starting in the Boer War and continuing into WW I New Service was designed for military use and came into service in 1898 British designation was "PISTOL COLT .455 inch, 5.5 inch barrel , MK I" Some 60,000 were supplied to British EMpire forces (UK and Canada, which had bought many of them to supplement earlier Colt 45 "Peacemakeers ) Barrels wer marked .NEW SERVICE 455 ELEY to indicate caliber dman, The 60,000 Colt New Service Revolvers chambered in .455 calibre you refer to, were a contract Colt had with the British Government at the start of WW1 to supply 60,000 .455 service revolvers to supplement projected shortfalls in stocks of the Webley .455 service revolver. in addition, the British Government also purchased 5000 Smith & Wesson Hand Ejector Mark I revolvers in .455 calibre, along with some 69,755 Mark II .455 models. Attached are some photographs of a Colt New Service .455 revolver from my firearms collection, this particular revolver was manufactured in 1916, as part of that 60,000 revolver contract. Another photograph, shows that barrel marking you refer to. Also attached is a photograph showing 2 other .455 revolvers from my Collection, the Webley .455 Mk..VI, and the Smith & Wesson .455 Hand Ejector Mark II, for comparison. All the revolvers are in mint original live-firing condition, and each still shoots superbly. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 30 August , 2014 Share Posted 30 August , 2014 For comparison, my Webley .455 Mk.VI service revolver, Colt New Service .455 revolver, and Smith & Wesson Hand Ejector Mark II .455 revolver. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 30 August , 2014 Share Posted 30 August , 2014 Thanks everyone, wow ! what a huge label list, question though, in newspaper advertising did they 'illustrate' the pistols and if so did they stay with a webley profile or was it definitive to the actual revolvers in stock at the time? khaki khaki, Here is an advertisement for the Colt New Service revolver in .455 calibre, ' As supplied to her Majesty's Government ' ( Queen Victoria ) - price 5 pounds, giving nice details of the revolver and good illustrations. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 30 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 30 August , 2014 Thanks LF, I wonder what influenced the purchase decision for the new officer, recommendations from sales people who were completing a larger purchase order eg., uniforms, equipment, regimental requirements, friends or family, affordability or maybe for an inexperienced lieutenant what ever fitted the holster. Perhaps there is no real answer. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 30 August , 2014 Share Posted 30 August , 2014 Thanks LF, I wonder what influenced the purchase decision for the new officer, recommendations from sales people who were completing a larger purchase order eg., uniforms, equipment, regimental requirements, friends or family, affordability or maybe for an inexperienced lieutenant what ever fitted the holster. Perhaps there is no real answer. khaki khaki, As you know, many officers purchased their revolvers privately, and the Webley Mk.VI shown in post # 15 belonged to 2nd Lieutenant S.V.D. Douglas-Jones of the Coldsteam Guards, he purchased this revolver privately and had it fitted with custom walnut grips, I also have his sword, cartridge pouch and holster. Although the Webley, Colt and Smith & Wesson may look similar, there is an enormous difference in the feel of each revolver both when holding it and firing it, for example the hand grip on the Colt New Service is much bigger than the hand grip on the Smith & Wesson, and most officers would have formed a preference once having held the revolver. So I think personal preference for the ' feel ' of the revolver would have been the prime factor in their choice, and secondly availability. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 30 August , 2014 Share Posted 30 August , 2014 The personal side-arms of 2nd Lieutenant S.V.D. Douglas-Jones of the Coldsteam Guards, including his Webley .455 Mk.VI revolver which he had fitted with custom walnut grips. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 30 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 30 August , 2014 Hello LF, You are absolutely correct about the new service, a great firearm whether in .455 or as the M1917, but I doubt that the average freshly minted Lieutenant would have enough revolver experience to make an educated choice, apart from as you say 'the feel'. Your Douglas-Jones collection is outstanding and to use the vernacular of the day it's 'top hole' congratulations khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 31 August , 2014 Share Posted 31 August , 2014 Hello LF, You are absolutely correct about the new service, a great firearm whether in .455 or as the M1917, but I doubt that the average freshly minted Lieutenant would have enough revolver experience to make an educated choice, apart from as you say 'the feel'. Your Douglas-Jones collection is outstanding and to use the vernacular of the day it's 'top hole' congratulations khaki khaki, Many thanks, I am pleased you found the set of interest. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dman Posted 31 August , 2014 Share Posted 31 August , 2014 Thanks LF As indicated number of British officers bought their own Colt New Service revolvers . Criteria was that had to use the 455 round to simply ammunition supply Question were any of the New Service guns issued to OR (ordinary ranks aka enlisted men) Some units like the Special Brigades (chemical troops) were issued with revolvers as a personal weapon do to their duties handling heavy equipment (gas cylinders and such) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 31 August , 2014 Share Posted 31 August , 2014 Question were any of the New Service guns issued to OR (ordinary ranks aka enlisted men) dman, There is photographic evidence of both the Colt Revolver and the Smith & Wesson Revolver being issued to O.R.s., and attached are 2 photographs, one showing a Signals Dispatch Rider armed with a Colt revolver, and also another of a RFC Airman armed with a Smith & Wesson revolver. The Colt is identified by the ' Colt ' logo on the hand grip, and the Smith & Wesson by the hand grip and the front sight. Regards, LF 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 31 August , 2014 Share Posted 31 August , 2014 So I think personal preference for the ' feel ' of the revolver would have been the prime factor in their choice, and secondly availability. Regards, LF A lot of literature I've read asserts that pistols and revolvers were in critically short supply for most of the duration - so I rather think that availability might've been the prime factor ! Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 1 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 1 September , 2014 Good point, khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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