E20 Survivors in a Turkish POW hospital Photograph

[sonicsniper]

Taken in Turkey Hospital Winter 1915/1916

Can any body help me with the names of the men in this picture. Any help or guidance will be gratefully received.

Submariner Joseph Embery Stoker first class one of the Survivors of the E20 Submarine

Submariner ?? ??? one of the Survivors of the E20 Submarine

Submariner ?????? one of the Survivors of E20 Submarine

Submariner ???????? one of the survivors of the E20 Submarine

I have close ups of all in the photograph if anybody wants the close ups please give me your email address and I will send them.

[sonicsniper]

If Anybody would like to have copies of the pictures i have please let me know your email address.

I will Attach all i have.

Regards

Roger

[ssmart42]

Does anyone have any details of the Commander of the E20 a Lt Commander Clyfford Warren? We think he came to our school and we are interested in tracing him

[sadsac]

Find here details of Submarine Service of Lt.Cdr Warren ;

WARREN Clyfford Harris. LT CDR.

B.11. IN COMMAND. 1. 2.09. ONYX.

B.1. 1. 2.09. FORTH.

C.1. 8. 2.13. THAMES.

C.1. 16. 5.15. IN COMMAND.

Born 13.10.1885. Cdt 15.05.1900, Mid 30.09.1901, SubLt 30.11.1904,

Lt 30.11.1905, LtCdr 30.11.1913, Retired List 20.12.1920.

HMS Thames 14.05.1906 For submarine training

HMS Forth 25.02.1908 For command of submarine

HMS Onyx 01.02.1909 CO HMs/m B11

HMS Mercury 01.08.1910 CO HMs/m A12

General Service 12.01.1911 HMS Triumph

HMS Thames 08.02.1913 CO HMs/m C1

HMS Dolphin 01.07.1915 CO HMs/m E20

[Completing, Vickers]

05.11.1915 Prisoner of War

HMS Dolphin 01.12.1918 For submarine duties

HMS Royal Arthur 17.02.1919 In Command

HMS Pandora 14.01.1920 In Command

30.08.1915, HMS/m E20 completed, after trials she joined HMS Adamant with Special Service Flotilla 1 at Mudros.

06.11.1915, Having made its way through the Dardanelles to the Sea of Marmara to rendezvous with the French submarine Turquoise HMS/m E20 was sunk by torpedo from UB14 the rendezvous plans having been discovered when Turquoise was captured by the Turkish forces having run aground. There were only nine survivors from HMS/m E20 including the Commanding Officer.

27.12.1939, WW2 service, HMS Lynx.

12.03.1940, HMS Claverhouse

05.11.1941, HMS Tedworth

15.12.1941, During December he returned to the Retired List probably on health grounds.

AWARDS. Member of the Order of the British Empire

No idea of his life after leaving RN. Perhaps an Obit in The Times / other Paper may supply some family connection.

Sadsac

[Martin Rob]

I have just come across a relative of mine who died on the E20 submarine in November 1915. He was Frank Edgar Williams born on 24 June 1890 in Hampstead who was a first cousin of my maternal grandmother. He joined the Royal Navy on 6 December 1909 for would should have been 12 years. He was an engine room artificer (ERA) 3rd class on the E20 from 9 September 1915 and had previous service on shore establishments plus Hermione, Queen Mary, and submarine depot ships Dolphin and Maidstone. Could Frank possibly have been one of the ratings in the photo of the E20 at Vickers in Barrow?  His service record shows "Adamant E20" from 9 September to 5 November 1915 and just prior to this "Dolphin" 21 July to 8 September 1915. Could he have been on the E20 on it's commissioning day 30 August 1915?    

[horatio2]

Look at the ADM 188 record of ERA Arthur LONERGAN, who also died in the loss of E.20., He shows the same dates for DOLPHIN and ADAMANT  but is recorded as DOLPHIN (E.20) but not ADAMANT (E.20). It is, therefore, possible, given the minor errors and discrepancies that creep into these records, that ERA Frank WILLIAMS was also borne on the books of DOLPHIN as a supernumerary for E.20, We cannot be certain that he was present at the commissioning of E.20 but it is possible that he was. If he cannot be identified in the photo, one can go no further than that.

LONERGAN record -   https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7242813

[Martin Rob]

That is most useful, thank you

[horatio2]

See also the record of ERA Harold MALE, another E.20 casualty. His record shows him as DOLPHIN (E.20) and ADAMANT (E.20). In DOLPHIN  he is borne on List 13 - supernumerary for E.20. In ADAMANT he is borne on List 12 - for service in E.20 (after she was transferred to the Dardanelles campaign.) I think all three ERAs should have been so recorded.

MALE record   -   https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7242812

[Martin Rob]

Thank you again - you have made a logical conclusion - all becomes clearer! 

[horatio2]

To tie all that speculation togther:-

It is often difficult to determine from ADM 188 ledger records precisely when a rating was transferred to a ship (or submarine, in this case) taking passage to a foreign station. Sometimes they were transferred on leaving UK, sometimes on arrival at the new station and sometimes when on passage between the two. It was a purely a change of administration and pay office.

For the crew of E.20 we have determined that they were borne on the books of HMS ADAMANT, the submarine depot ship at Mudros, from 9 September 1915, Before that they were carried (from 21 July) as supernumeraries for E.20 on the books of HMS DOLPHIN at Gosport while bringing E.20 to completion at Vickers and commissioning her on 30 August for service.

I have found in the log of HMS GLORY at Mudros an entry for the arrival there of E.20 at 3.40pm on 24 September. E.20 had been met the previous day by HMS CHATHAM who provided an escort to Mudros. Since passage time for a submarine from UK to Mudros was probably about two weeks, it is very likely that E.20 left UK on 9 September. I have found no record of E.20’s movements after 30 August. It is possible that she was sailed south to DOLPHIN but most E-boats were based at Harwich and Yarmouth and a stop there prior to deployment cannot be discounted.

Edited 20 May , 2023 by horatio2

[Martin Rob]

That is a useful timeline thank you

[The Treasurer]

6 hours ago, Martin Rob said:

That is a useful timeline thank you

Worth adding that there are some further details about E.20 in this thread: