Trench Knife ?

[beestonboxer]

Yesterday I brought a collection of ww1 related items , medals , paperwork, sweetheart badge ect it came direct from the recipients family in that kind of 100 year untouched look about the collection, also included in it this knife I am convinced it is of ww1 era as it was part of a well looked after great war collection. Question is what is it ? I have taken a look on the net and it seems to be in a style similar to many Trench knifes in particular those from Germany.

There are no makers marks or any other marks visible blade length 155mm overall length 270mm, leather brass tipped scabbard.no rivets in the handle , my thoughts are it is some kind of fighting knife. Brought back from the war by a member of the KOSB.

[T8HANTS]

Looks like a WW2 Fairburn Sykes fighting knife, the scabbard is also of the correct pattern. The wooden handle should be knurled brass or a ridged pattern, but there is nothing new under the sun so the design might have been pre-empted. Although the original fairburn Sykes was supposedly based on Shanghai types.

[beestonboxer]

yes just been taking a look at the Fairburn Sykes scabbard , this is almost identical will take photo of reverse and add, I suppose there is a possibility we have a mix of knife and scabbard here although knife and scabbard fit very snugly.

[beestonboxer]

scabbard reverse

[PhilB]

I think T8 is suggesting that it is actually a FS knife with home made (or at least non-standard) grips fitted and would therefore fit snugly into what might be its original scabbard.

[Michael Haselgrove]

Beestonboxer,

Not my period, but I have looked it up in Fighting Knives by Frederick Stevens. He says:

"One variant of the Commando dagger which is encountered quite frequently is the wood grip version. It is commonly believed that these daggers were produced for service in the hot climates of Burma and India, and although this may be true, it is also known that they were produced as commercial items in the U.K. According to information received by the author, many Sheffield firms after completing their government contracts found themselves with a surplus of blades. Wooden hilts were turned up for these and they were sold to the usual retailers. A wide range of grip variations exist, presumably because of the varying techniques of the producers of the grips. One feature of interest to the collector is that most, but not all, of the wood grip versions feature the broad, parallel-sided cross-guard".

Regards,

Michael.

[Beerhunter]

That handle is obviously very amateurish and would be pretty useless.

[trajan]

That handle is obviously very amateurish and would be pretty useless.

Please explain!

[Kevin O'Marah]

Many, many variants and patterns of f/s daggers were made, some with wooden handles, some without. Some could be purchased from Wilkinson's etched for 1s 6p. The ones we most often see today are mainly the first, second and third pattern but many unknown variants were commissioned.

Kevin

[beestonboxer]

I think T8 is suggesting that it is actually a FS knife with home made (or at least non-standard) grips fitted and would therefore fit snugly into what might be its original scabbard.

yes I have had some further input from non forum members and they also believe it is a ww2 period FS with a replacement - home produced wooden grip , so this blows my theory of trench knife to pieces, still a nice little knife. Thanks for all thoughts on this much appreciated.

[Beerhunter]

Please explain!

Badly carved. Too smooth. No grip.

[beestonboxer]

Badly carved. Too smooth. No grip.

That makes sense , thanks.

[trajan]

Have you checked out this site? http://www.fairbairnsykesfightingknives.com/x-daggers.html

Nothing quite the same there but food for thought!

[trajan]

That makes sense , thanks.

Not really. Wood absorbs sweat and the crossguard prevents slippage with a stabbing or thrusting blow. Practice stabbing or thrusting into a sunday joint and you'll see what I mean!

[beestonboxer]

very interesting link, especially the part about ground down bayonets to make the daggers.

[trajan]

There are quite a few modern reproductions around but yours is clearly an original, with a later (but still 'period') handle. Nice little find, all in all - especially so as it has its scabbard!