I wonder if anyone could help me please?

[Tracyhf1]

I am doing a little research with my father (with ancestry.co.uk) on our family tree and feeling a bit overwhelmed at the task already.

We have hit a brick wall with regards to his maternal grandparents.

It doesn't help that his Grandfather is called Frederick Davenport (he thinks), however on one of his medals it says Davenport, but on the other it says Devonport. Then to complicate matters further their 2 children - ie my Dads Mum and her brother...one is in the birth register as Devonport, the other as Davenport! Assuming they are the correct siblings. We were having the family discussion, with my 65 year old Father trying to remember what his mother's maiden name actually is...when he suddenly remembers medals left to him by her.

His mother had the following:

The first two are from Frederick (her dad)

One is a 1914 Star (I googled it) and on the back it reads 7543 Pte F. Davenport 2/S.STAFFS R

The 2nd is a round silver one and says 7543 Pte F Devonport S STAFFS R

So ironically one of the medals is correct and the other isn't!

She also had another two which we believe to be from her mother's side of the family (Price)

One silver and one victory medal with the following on : 89246 DVR H Price RA

If anyone could possible shed any light on anything to do with these I would be so grateful. The whole thing is a mess, and we thought the medals would give us a definitive answer to the Devonport/Davenport question. I must admit to not really knowing what I am doing relating to the military searches on ancestry, but I do not see a Devonport or Davenport with s staffs on there at all. I don't even know where might be a better place to search.

Thank you so much.

[Derbys]

Hello Tracey

They're probably both Frederick's medals : 1914 Star reads " 2nd Battalion South Staffs " and the War Medal reads "South Staffs Regiment". Davenport or Devonport ? - misspellings are more common place than one might expect !. He would also have received the Victory Medal. You could do with getting a copy of his Medal Index Card as a start - I'm sure there are forum members who could help here.

[dundeesown]

Hi Welcome to the Forum.

It looks as if he has two medal cards the one for his 14 Star has F Davenport and the one for his BWM & Victory medal has Frederick Devonport.

Not much help but I will keep looking.

Gary

[Derbys]

Tracey

89248 Dvr H Price RA - he was a driver (horses) in the Royal Artillery. Again his MIC would be a good place to start. From the regimental number and the fact he didn't get the 1914 or 1914/15 star then that would suggest he didn't enter a theatre of war until after 1st Jan 1916.

Referring again to Davenport - I might be completely wrong with my limited experience here, and sending you off in the wrong direction, but his low number of 7543 might ( I stress might) just indicate he served in the army prior to WW1 (my own great grandad had a low WW1 number and served prior to WW1). No expert and happy to be corrected, but hope this helps a little anyway.

[sreedjennings]

Dont know if it will help

type "freebmd" in web box and click on search

if you have some idea of dates and areas and where they come from for births or marriages that will help

you can search surname and spouse for a marriage and if you look on the info you can usually find the spouse

put in a phonetic search that will give you either spelling

it might give you a clearer answer as to correct spelling and help with the military search

[dundeesown]

Your man 89246 Harold Price was born in Birmingham and sorry to say was killed in action 23.03.1918,his name is on The Pozieres Memorial.

His medals would be the 1914/15 Star,BWM and the Victory Medal.

Gary

[sotonmate]

Tracy

Your Dad might like to see the Battalion War Diary which is digital and downloadable from the National Archives. It gives a day-by-day account of activity and where they went.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C4554513

and then click on the green box on the centre right which says Go to Browse and you will see that there are four sections of the Diary by date group.Choose which segment(s) you want to buy,click on Details, and it will proceed to payment and download.

[Tracyhf1]

Thank you all so much. I really can't thank you enough.

[Tracyhf1]

Your man 89246 Harold Price was born in Birmingham and sorry to say was killed in action 23.03.1918,his name is on The Pozieres Memorial.

His medals would be the 1914/15 Star,BWM and the Victory Medal.

Gary

Thank you. Very emotional to hear that but I really appreciate it. I believe he could be my Great Grandmother's brother, rather than Great Great Grandfather. I didn't even know what the H stood for, thank you so much.

[Tracyhf1]

I have found this on the National Roll of the Great War. (Frederick Devonport)

He was already serving in the Army at the time of the outbreak of hostilities, and was among the first drafts to arrive in France, and to proceed to the firing line. He was in action at the Battle of Mons, and in the Retreat, and also did good work with his unit at the Battles of the Marne, the Aisne, Ypres, Neuve Chapelle, the Somme, and Arras, being wounded on two occasions . After excellent services he was demobilized in January 1919 and holds the Mons Star, and the General Service and Victory medals.

Amazing to read.

For both him and Harold we don't seem to have the full quota of medals, I suspect the one missing from him and the one missing from Harold must have been sent down a different branch of the family tree. :-)

[sotonmate]

For both him and Harold we don't seem to have the full quota of medals, I suspect the one missing from him and the one missing from Harold must have been sent down a different branch of the family tree. :-)

Maybe the British War Medal ? I have read that this silver medal was often sold for the value of the silver where funds were low as soldiers were regaining their feet in civvy life after the war.

[Tracyhf1]

Maybe the British War Medal ? I have read that this silver medal was often sold for the value of the silver where funds were low as soldiers were regaining their feet in civvy life after the war.

For Frederick we have the star and the BWM, but not the Victory one. And for Harold we have the BWM and the Victory but not the star. I think that because my Granmother was one of two siblings they were just divided between her and her brother. They could have been sold I guess, but we have the 2 silver BWM, so not sure.

[sotonmate]

Tracy

OK,so my note is not applicable in this matter ! I mention it in case it was the BWMs that weren't there.I didn't hear of the others being sold for their metal value.

I was going to mention last night how well that Fred had done,going right through the war and coming out the other side, and it eluded my little brain then !

[Tracyhf1]

Tracy

OK,so my note is not applicable in this matter ! I mention it in case it was the BWMs that weren't there.I didn't hear of the others being sold for their metal value.

I was going to mention last night how well that Fred had done,going right through the war and coming out the other side, and it eluded my little brain then !

I know, amazing. He must have thought he would never seen home again. To think that my Great Grandmother's future husband and her brother were together at one point (Somme) fighting in the same battlefields. Really makes you think doesn't it. Sadly her brother never came home.

[captainslog7718]

Hi Tracy, I had a quick look for your greatgrandfather (Fred D)as we have Davenports in our family (they live in Devon, ;-)).

Assuming I have the right guy there is only one instance of a Fred D marrying a Price and that is :

Marriages Sep 1915 Frederick Devonport - Violet Price - Kings N.

So it appears he registered his marriage as a Devonport.

His marriage certificate would help you get back a further generation as Fred Davenport/Devonport is a suprisingly common name.

regards Bill Martindale.

[The Inspector]

Hi Tracy

There is a Violet Price b. July 1887 Birmingham living with her parents Philip James and Adelaide Jane and 5 siblings, one of whom is Harold born 1897 on the 1901 census. 1911 census Harold is with his mother ADERLADE J Price but Violet is not present, she is boarding with the Thompson family in Handsworth, Staffs. Public Trees on Ancestry with these individuals but not the census connections. As Bill says above, the marriage cert.will provide more info...... still looking!

Regards Barry

Harold's MIC is on Ancestry, Brit,Vic and 15 Star. He entered France on the 22nd May 1915.

[KevinBattle]

If you don't already know it, 23 March was during the huge German attacks, using troops newly released from the Eastern Front by the collapse of Russia.

They hoped to make the decisive breakthrough before the large contingents of Americans could make the difference.

Very confused fighting as many units were outflanked, pulled back or surrounded.

It very nearly succeeded until they outpaced their own supply lines.

Many units don't have a War Diary covering this period as their HQ's were overrun and documents destroyed or captured.

Those that do existare generally reconstructions from memory some time after the event.

The 51st Brigade RFA seem to have come out fairly lightly, even though the Germans obviously penetrated close to them, and possibly these casualties may have been counter battery shelling to silence the guns trying to halt the German advance...

FLETCHER FRANK ELLIS F E. 26. 21/03/1918. Gunner Royal Field Artillery "C" Bty. 51st Bde. France. 27627. ROYE NEW BRITISH CEMETERY Marchelepot Brit. Cem. Mem. 52. SON OF GEORGE AND MARY JANE FLETCHER, OF 4, SMITHFIELD RD., GLEADLESS, SHEFFIELD.

FLETCHER RALPH STANLEY R S 20. 21/03/1918. Gunner. Royal Field Artillery "A" Bty. 51st Bde. France. L/16256. FINS NEW BRITISH CEMETERY, SOREL-LE-GRAND IV. D. 18. SON OF PAUL AND ANNIE FLETCHER, OF MOORLANDS COTTAGE, THE PARK, BACUP, LANCS.

GILL FRANK F 21/03/1918. Driver Royal Field Artillery "C" Bty. 51st Bde. France. 84785. POZIERES MEMORIAL Panel 7 to 10.

HODGSON G. 25. 21/03/1918. Driver Royal Field Artillery "B" Bty. 51st Bde. France. 27852. FINS NEW BRITISH CEMETERY, SOREL-LE-GRAND IV. D. 10.

SON OF JOHN AND SARAH ANN HODGSON, OF 52, MAYNARD ROW, CHESTERFIELD.

HUME J K 21/03/1918 Driver Royal Field Artillery "D" Bty. 51st Bde. France. 193016. FINS NEW BRITISH CEMETERY, SOREL-LE-GRAND IV. D. 15,.

HUTSON WILLIAM CECIL W C. 19. 21/03/1918. Second Lieutenant Royal Field Artillery "C" Bty. 51st Bde. France. POZIERES MEMORIAL Panel 7 to 10.

SON OF HARRY AND ANNIE HUTSON, OF 575, AVENUE RD., TORONTO, CANADA. GAZETTED FROM ROYAL MILITARY COLLEGE, KINGSTON, CANADA.

LEECH PERCY EWART P E. 22. 21/03/1918. Gunner Royal Field Artillery "C" Bty. 51st Bde. France. 112845. ROYE NEW BRITISH CEMETERY Marchelepot Brit. Cem. Mem. 48. SON OF THOMAS AND EMMA LEECH, OF ALTRINCHAM RD., WILMSLOW, MANCHESTER.

MARSHALL ROBIN PERCY R P 21/03/1918. Lance Bombardier Royal Field Artillery "C" Bty. 51st Bde. France. 58941. POZIERES MEMORIAL Panel 7 to 10.

MILLS A .21/03/1918. Driver Royal Field Artillery "B" Bty. 51st Bde. France. 86907. FINS NEW BRITISH CEMETERY, SOREL-LE-GRAND IV. D. 11.

PRICE HAROLD H. 23/03/1918. Driver Royal Field Artillery "A" Bty. 51st Bde. France. 89246. POZIERES MEMORIAL Panel 7 to 10.

SMITH GEORGE G. 21/03/1918. Gunner Royal Field Artillery 51st Bde. France. 251608. POZIERES MEMORIAL Panel 7 to 10.

It doesn't necessarily mean that Harold still lies undiscovered, but that many men were unable to be identified and are therefore buried with a headstone marked "Known Unto God".

The few men that do have known graves may indicate a fighting withdrawal with men being killed at various temporary positions as they fell back until the line stabilised.

[Tracyhf1]

Gosh, I have only just seen these last replies. I had been so busy and had a break from the investigations and didn't get an email to say anyone had replied. Must check my settings. Thank you so much.

In the First World War could they have been deployed and then come back if injured? I know Frederick was one of the first to be sent to France, but if he was the "Devonport" that married V Price in Sept and the register was a misprint he would have been back here obviously...is that possible to happen? Then be sent back over to France again later?

I am very new to the whole genealogy thing and was pulling my hair out. I really appreciate all your help.

[KevinBattle]

Tracey, as per your post #10, you know he was wounded twice, so obviously he did recover and go back (twice!). Some men were wounded a number of times.

Depending on where hit and what by generally determined whether you would live or die or suffer sufficiently not to regain full A1 medical condition, or recover to face it all again.

You just need to read up on the Battles you mention and that will give you a time frame for when he might have sustained a wound sufficiently serious enough to require treatment and recuperation in the UK to meet and marry.... then off to the battlefields once more.

I think you can be reasonably certain that the soldier wounded twice was the one who married your great grandma, so he had to be back in the UK - she wouldn't have been allowed in France!!

The only logical explanation is being wounded (or being trained for a commission as an officer - which didn't happen to him!)