shippingsteel Posted 10 August , 2014 Share Posted 10 August , 2014 Guys, here is the ID challenge for the day, what do we make of this combination.? Noticed this postcard on this thread linked HERE Any information we can provide may be of some use to the member who posted it. I think I have got it nailed but it's a tricky one for sure.! (Image copied across from the above thread for ease of viewing) We need the model of rifle, model of bayonet and nationality of the troops. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N White Posted 11 August , 2014 Share Posted 11 August , 2014 Austrians with modified 1867 yataghans mounted on Gew88? I know nothing of uniforms, so that's a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radlad Posted 11 August , 2014 Share Posted 11 August , 2014 Austrians with modified 1867 yataghans mounted on Gew88? I know nothing of uniforms, so that's a guess. echo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 12 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 12 August , 2014 Sorry for the delay ... yes I think Mr N White has got it in one.! Certainly the Gewehr 88 with the unmistakeable straight bolt and rear sight setup, and a hint of magazine showing. The side mounted "bar on band" attachment of the bayonet also confirms the above. And being a semi yataghan blade in Austrian service the obvious choice would be a Werndl. So any one of the M1867/M1870/M1873 variants which had been previously shortened, and now despite being well obsolete, still able to be adapted as an 'ersatz' for the Gew88. The only other possibility that I could think of was a M1885 Kropatschek which was mostly used by the Portuguese but made by OEWG in Steyr. These were also used as 'ersatz'. So both of these types featured the semi yataghan blade and were of roughly the same blade length. The only real difference being found in the style and shape of the crossguard. While the Kropatschek bayonet had knobs on top and bottom parts of the crossguard, the Werndl bayonet had the sharply curved quillon, which I believe is just visible in the photo. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N White Posted 12 August , 2014 Share Posted 12 August , 2014 That quillion was what sealed it for me. Must be Werndl, therefore Gew88, therefore Austrian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 12 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 12 August , 2014 Yep, good catch. I have noticed you are quite up with the German conversions, so this one was right up your street then.! Too easy ... Hmmm ... which gets me thinking of some other photos that I know of. Maybe I will have to dig them out to ramp up the degree of difficulty.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 13 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 13 August , 2014 Well this one should also be relatively straightforward as far as the identification goes (although the nomenclature may be a little tricky) Arguably one of the better looking service rifles from the GW.! Once again we need the model of rifle, model of bayonet and nationality. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 16 August , 2014 Share Posted 16 August , 2014 That quillion was what sealed it for me. Must be Werndl, therefore Gew88, therefore Austrian. Just noticed this thread! Yes, looks like the Werndl, 1867 or 1870... IF so, with a bushed muzzle ring and a stepped pommel, and used by Austrian Landwehr and Landsturm units. The sources indicate that there may have been as many as 250,000 in WW1 use, but they are now extremely rare - there is one in the Brussels Army Museum, catalogued by Dangre in 1930, and I think there is one in a private collection in Belgium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 16 August , 2014 Share Posted 16 August , 2014 Well this one should also be relatively straightforward as far as the identification goes (although the nomenclature may be a little tricky) Arguably one of the better looking service rifles from the GW.! Once again we need the model of rifle, model of bayonet and nationality. Cheers, S>S 1000.jpg I don't do rifles or non-German uniforms, but I'll make a wild guess as to the bayonet being a modified Sciabola Modello 70? Happy to be corrected - so long as there is no personal insult in the correction! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N White Posted 16 August , 2014 Share Posted 16 August , 2014 Well this one should also be relatively straightforward as far as the identification goes (although the nomenclature may be a little tricky) Arguably one of the better looking service rifles from the GW.! Once again we need the model of rifle, model of bayonet and nationality. Cheers, S>S 1000.jpg I wasn't so fast to play this time, since I thought it might be too easy. Perhaps I was wrong, but does it have to do with one of these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 16 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 16 August , 2014 Yep, they were made just down the road from you I reckon. (Now I'm just guessing, but I think you know what I mean) Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N White Posted 16 August , 2014 Share Posted 16 August , 2014 Truer than you know, SS. I grew up a mere hour from New Haven, and that particular pointy gem, in my opinion, never left the state... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 17 August , 2014 Share Posted 17 August , 2014 Well,there you go! The 1895! I thought the blade on these was wider... There again, should have checked the uniforms and the rifles, my weakest point in these ID games... And that looks like a nice example you have there NWhite! BTW, SS rarely acknowledges his sources, but the same image is on-line at http://www.tumblr.com/search/winchester%201895; and it is also shown in "Russia’s Winchester Model 1895", a great article on the rifle and its Russian use, published in 'Guns and Ammo' on October 18th, 2011 by Garry James, available on-line at: http://www.gunsandammo.com/blogs/history-books/russias-winchester-model-1895/ SS shows a slightly cropped version of the photograph - Garry's version, as here, downloaded from the Guns and Ammo page, shows a soldier in the bottom left hand corner: This second image of the same rifle and bayonet in Russian use is one of my favourites, and is downloaded from: http://www.forgottenweapons.com/vintage-saturday-lever-actions-in-the-trenches/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 18 August , 2014 Share Posted 18 August , 2014 Here's another for you! Pretty straightforward I think! An original dated 1914 image in my personal collection, although I would not be too surprised if other copies exist! As before, country, rifle and bayonet... And for a plus, which front? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 19 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 19 August , 2014 It's one of these ... with one of those on the end. (That should clear things up a little.!) Thought it would help to actually be able to see the bayonet ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 19 August , 2014 Share Posted 19 August , 2014 "Didn't he do well?"! As you probably guessed, I chose that one precisely because of the side-on view of the bayonet knowing that the ID was straightforward once logic was applied as you have so cleverly demonstrated! So, the uniform and the soldier’s accoutrements identify the probable country; helps identify the probable rifle; the length of the rifle can be easily determined so the length of the bayonet can be calculated; and then the make of bayonet (if not the exact model) can be identified! Want to go further? Region? Anything odd about that man's equipment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 19 August , 2014 Share Posted 19 August , 2014 SS, I'm still waiting for the country, region and oddity in the equipment on that last one! For the time being, here is a very easy one for all others - a detail in this case of an original image in my collection (although other copies may exist), but despite being cropped and so lacking any headgear (to make it a wee bit harder!), it really is straightforward! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 21 August , 2014 Share Posted 21 August , 2014 Hmmm ... which gets me thinking of some other photos that I know of. Maybe I will have to dig them out to ramp up the degree of difficulty.! Which is why I put mine up above w/o the head gear, to ramp up the "degree of difficulty"! To quote: For the time being, here is a very easy one for all others - a detail in this case of an original image in my collection (although other copies may exist), but despite being cropped and so lacking any headgear (to make it a wee bit harder!), it really is straightforward! Surprised nobody didn't get this one yet - especially SS, the master - or maybe you are busy? So, for SS and others, a larger detail... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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