Photo request Plymouth

[carninyj]

Would a kind member of the Forum be able to get me a digital photograph of this Larne sailor's grave?

1319C Seaman Samuel Baxter, Royal Naval Reserve, died in Plymouth Hospital on 17 February 1918 and was buried with full naval honour. ... He is buried in Ford Park Cemetery (formerly Plymouth Old Cemetery – Pennycomequick).

Thank you

Carninyj

[Jim Maclean]

Here it is. Grey slate rather than the usual white Portland stone. Also noted that the headstone records the date of death as 17 Feb 1917, whereas the CWGC website records the death as 17 Feb 1918.

Certainly for me raises a couple of questions, such as why the totally different format for the headstone? What was the date of death, '17 or '18? Also CWGC states HMS Wellington, headstone has HMS Wallington

[Terry Denham]

Jim

This is an Admiralty style headstone.

The Admiralty has often had specific style headstones in both its own cemeteries and for plots in other locations. Some of these graves will be official war graves as this one.

I'll check out the apparent discrepancies and report back.

[Jim Maclean]

Thanks for that Terry, I'm sure the info will be interesting to carninyj also.

I noticed walking around the cemetery there were both slate and limestone headstones of the type more usually associated with the CWGC with overlapping dates. Does this mean that there were two authorities for the headstones? I didn't think at the time to see if there was a distinction between shore establishments and sea going ships.

Jim

[Terry Denham]

When a casualty died in their home country the relatives could choose both the burial location and whether to have a CWGC stone or a private stone - facilities not available to relatives of those who died overseas.

The Royal Navy has often had various styles of uniform headstone in its cemeteries - the army also - going back well before WW1. In these cases the relatives either chose to have the naval style in preference to the CWGC style - or the RN so chose if no relatives were in the picture.

There are also standard CWGC headstones in a dark slate-like stone in some of these naval cemeteries as well. CWGC stones have been made out of many different types and colour materials and not only the more common Portland limestone. These stones were probably produced by CWGC to blend in with any existing naval stones whilst keeping the official shape and format.

The photo below, taken by Signals, shows an official CWGC stone in the foreground with Admiralty stones similar to yours in the background.

Therefore you could say there were two authorities in the UK- CWGC and the relatives. About 18% of relatives elected to have their own private stones (or had already erected one when the CWGC stone was launched at the end of the war).

[Jim Maclean]

A headstone to conjure up some mental pictures

Another picture attached showing S. Baxters grave to the left of a Portland stone headstone, another in the background.

I don't know if I expect too much, but I have to say that I was less than impressed with the condition of Pennycomequick Cemetery. On the bright side, there is a large crew in there with petrol driven strimmers removing the brambles. A new 'trust' has taken over and work is ongoing. The lady that seemed to be in charge informed me that they had a contract with CWGC to maintain the graves. Makes me wonder where the money went in days gone by!!!!!!!!!

If anyone else wants photos of graves in Pennycomequick, I think I now have the code cracked.

Jim

[Jim Strawbridge]

Jim, You had it easy. I was in Pennycomequick about eighteen months ago and spent two days with a machette trying to find a single grave. I felt like Tarzan in the jungle. The area down the hill and to the side of the central chapel and up the other side was waist high in bramble and bracken and was an absolute disgrace. The grave headstones could only just be seen. The past management seems to have let the cemetery go but I, too, saw a band of strimmers and from your photograph the cemetery has already had a lot of attention. By the way, as you mention, the CWGC will have paid for the graves in their care to be maintained by the local maintenance team. In a strange way the graves were !!! Into the undergrowth someone with a strimmer had made a path about a foot wide to each of the "submerged" CWGC graves. The problem was you had to follow each path to find out who's grave laid beyond. I think the management team has at last got their act together and found some grants to get the cemetery back straight. It covers over 20 acres and has some interesting headstones/monuments. I look forwad to another visit to see progress.

[larneman]

Hi John,

There were two small vessels called Wallington in the Royal Navy

during WW1. One was formerly a commercial trawler 259 gross tons built

1911.She was hired by the RN as a Boarding Vessel from 1915 to 1919. The

other was originally a yacht St George of 871 gross tons built 1890. Hired

by the RN 3/3/15 she kept her name until June 1918 when she was briefly

renamed Oriflamme by the RN later becoming the Base Ship Wallington from

10/18 to 3/19 before being returned to commercial service. Neither vessel

seems to have been sunk. Our man may have had an accident while serving on

the Boarding Vessel Wallington. Boarding vessels were used to stop and

search merchant vessels, particularly neutral vessels.

HMS Wellington, need to dig a bit deeper on this one, think she was a

sloop.

I have added all the above information and photograph to the Larne in War1 website at http://larne-in-war1.irishgenealogy.net

Thanks

Liam

[carninyj]

Thanks to all who responded, especially Jim MacClean who took the trouble to get me the photograph.

I'm also pleased the request has focused attention of the condition of the cemetery and I hope we will see further improvements.

Regards

Carninyj

[larneman]

Hi Jim,

Any chance of another Larne Headstone photograph.

Service,etc. Royal Naval Reserve

Vessel/etc. H.M.S. "Vivid."

Surname MACKEY

Christian Name(s) SAMUEL ROSS

Initials S R

Born

Enlisted

Residence

 

Age: 19

Date of Death: 19/07/1918

Died How

 

Theatre of War

 

Rank Trimmer

Service Number 8458TS

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: General K. 21. 36.

Cemetery: FORD PARK CEMETERY (FORMERLY PLYMOUTH OLD CEMETERY) (PENNYCOMEQUICK)        

Notes Son of William and Sarah Mackey, of 72, Circular Rd., Larne, Co. Antrim.

greetings

Liam

[Jim Maclean]

No problem Liam,

I'll pop in early next week for you.

Jim

[Jim Maclean]

Samuel Ross Mackey.

[larneman]

Hi Jim,

Thank you very much. I will be placing it on my website for the Larnemen who fell in the Great War. When I work out how to attach a name to a photo I will give you full credit for both Larne photographs.

Visit Larne in War One

greetings from Hoogwoud

Liam