Canadawwi Posted 23 October , 2004 Share Posted 23 October , 2004 Hi! I was hoping someone might be able to help me identify the unit for this group photo, and possibly provide any other interpretation. The background to this photo is as follows. I purchased this photo about two years ago at a Toronto antique show. It is a large photo, about 15" when mounted on board. I knew much less then than I know now (and even now, it seems there is always more to know, especially in comparison to the group on this forum). So I didn't even think about the unit back then, I just liked the fact that I had a very clear image of the men who were involved as this aspect interests me - their clothing, general appearance, facial expressions, etc. Men perhaps long forgotten, but now found. I think it is possible, since the same dealer more recently sold me pictures of units in training in Toronto, that this is a local Ontario unit that was later broken up for reinforcements, such as the 204th Beavers or 12th York Rangers. There is a hydro pole in the background and the faint outlines of a building - this makes me think it might be in Canada as nearer the front lines these poles might have been destroyed (but I could be all wrong about that). There are also some rifles - that could be important - the type might indicate a possible date. I apologize in advance for my woeful knowledge of badges, rifles, etc. Any ideas? I would really be pleased to be able to identify the group. Marika Here's a link to a close up view - group portrait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadawwi Posted 23 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 23 October , 2004 Detail view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 23 October , 2004 Share Posted 23 October , 2004 Marika Looks like the rifles are 1905 Ross I am going by what appears to be a screw just above the stacking swivel. I have a 1905 and a 1910 Ross and the screws are in a different location. I can not see the action but it does appear on the rifle on the far right the lever to push down the magazine cartridge carrier. so I would say the photo was taken in Canada as you suspected I do not think many 1905 Ross riflles would have made it to England. Can not help with the badge. Regards N.S.Regt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadawwi Posted 23 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 23 October , 2004 NS Regt - thank you for the information about the rifle. That is very helpful. I appreciate it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 23 October , 2004 Share Posted 23 October , 2004 Marika, pardon me for saying the obvious, but I assumed the badge was 7Bn CEF. I couldn`t find a picture anywhere, though, of the 7Bn badge to compare. Do you know it? Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadawwi Posted 23 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 23 October , 2004 Phil, Thank you for the tip about the 7th battalion. That is very interesting. I've just been checking all over the internet for a picture of the badge and couldn't find anything. I do not have a book about cap badges. Based on the picture, it looks like there is a thistle at the top and a stag head - similar to the design in some Seaforth Highlanders badges I have seen. Thanks again, Marika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broznitsky Posted 23 October , 2004 Share Posted 23 October , 2004 Marika, it can't be 7th (BC) Battalion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broznitsky Posted 23 October , 2004 Share Posted 23 October , 2004 When I first saw the closeup, I thought 72nd Seaforth Highlanders, but not them either. I don't have my badge books with me, but I'm sure you'll get an answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadawwi Posted 23 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 23 October , 2004 Broznitsky - Hi! Thanks for posting the photos and for looking for me. I can now rule out the 7th battalion. (P.S. Did you get the PM I sent you about a Ukr. in the CEF a few weeks ago?) I just found a very interesting site that has all the cap badges for Canada online - scanned from one of the medal books. Here's the link - cap badges. I checked there quite carefully and I could not find a single of the over 250 badges shown that matched the one in my picture. This is getting very mysterious! The badge I'm seaching for has a quite extended thistle at the top, and none of the badges shown on this site have anything like that. (On another issue - I discovered quite by accident while checking this medals site, a fantastic site by the way and very informative, that they've used a number of pictures from my own site. All though I don't mind at all if someone uses my pics, as my goal is to promote knowledge about the CEF, but I was a bit surprised that they didn't ask me if it was okay or offer placing a credit. What is especially surprising is that they used the pic of my own great uncle's grave that I had posted on my site as an example of a CWGC grave. I would have thought that this would make the borrowing a bit obvious. This is not the first time this has happened.) Marika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broznitsky Posted 23 October , 2004 Share Posted 23 October , 2004 Marika, yes, thanks, I thought I had thanked you for that clipping about the Ukrainian chap, but I could have forgotten. Thanks for the tip on the Cap Badge site; I think these are pages from the Babin book. I wonder who holds the copyright for it . . . Don't want to open a can of worms . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 23 October , 2004 Share Posted 23 October , 2004 Marika Have you tried pre 1920 militia badges just a thought. Regards N.S.Regt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadawwi Posted 23 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 23 October , 2004 Broznitsky, Yes, it is the Babin book - here's a link to their index page - Babin book NS Regt - I'll try that search now. Thanks for the tip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 23 October , 2004 Share Posted 23 October , 2004 Marika, The Badge might be to 111th Bn CEF. Babin's line drawing does not show that badge very clearly. Charlton's standard reference has a very good photo of one of the badges and it looks fairly close. I would also guess that the photo was taken in Canada, I know of only one unit that went to England armed with 1905 Ross rifles (not the 111th) and the mix of uniforms is in keeping with fatigue wear not usually taken to England. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broznitsky Posted 24 October , 2004 Share Posted 24 October , 2004 If Joe is right (and he often is ), 111th Btn, South Waterloo (Galt), Lt-Col J.D. Clark, sailed September 25, 1916 with 25 officers and 637 ORs, mobilized at ON, Galt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadawwi Posted 24 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 24 October , 2004 Joe, Thank you so much for looking that up for me. I looked again and the picture in the Babin book is quite close - the line drawing may be a bit off and that would explain some of the discrepancies. I agree that the picture is taken in Canada. The mix of uniforms, now that you mention it, does match pictures I have that I know were taken at Valcartier and Petawawa. Broznitzky - thank you also for the details about the Galt unit. I appreciate it. 1905 rifles going with the men? As I was reading that, the CBC news came on with yet another story about present day Canadian soldiers lacking equipment. Marika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 24 October , 2004 Share Posted 24 October , 2004 Marika. If it is 111th the photo was taken in the summer (Warm Weather) of 1916. The belt the soldier on the left is wearing is Pattern 1916 Dismounted, which did not start reaching units until late winter 1916. Also another indication of a Canada photo is that some of soldiers appear wearing the Cotton fatigue trousers and shirts which rarely made it out of Canada. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadawwi Posted 24 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 24 October , 2004 Hi Joe, Thanks for the tip about the belt. This is all very very helpful. I may see the dealer in about two weeks - he's doing a show near here. I think the dealer was from near London, Ontario - I'll doublecheck with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landsturm Posted 25 October , 2004 Share Posted 25 October , 2004 Well, if someone has some spare time:D he/she can go through this little site... this link should take to CEF battalion insignia section Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadawwi Posted 25 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 25 October , 2004 Landsturm, Thank you - that is a great site - especially since it has pictures of the badges. I'm checking it now... Marika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Alexander Posted 25 October , 2004 Share Posted 25 October , 2004 The badge as shown in the photo appears to be the 111th Bn. No other CEF badge has the same shape. I checked the pre-1914 militia badges as well and there isn't much that resembles the badge in the image. It would appear to be a reasonable conclusion to identify it as 111th for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadawwi Posted 25 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 25 October , 2004 Bill, Thank you very much for taking the time to check for the medal. Galt is in the area, and I will ask the dealer next time I see him if he recalls buying in that area. Best regards and thanks again, Marika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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