Higher Education Class, Aldershot Feb-Jul 1914.

[mrfrank]

I got this photo a few years ago and as it's now 100 years old, I thought I'd post it on the forum as I'm sure there may be individuals featured who could be of interest to some members - either now or in the future. It's a Gale and Polden group shot of the class with their Army Schoolmasters on the eve of war. I've done no research on these individuals apart from identifying a number who were killed during the war - it's a much bigger job awaiting my retirement! However, if anyone can contribute any information then so much the better and PM me if anyone would like a crop of a particular individual.

 

8424 L/Cpl Ernest Harrison 18th Hussars

9267 L/Cpl John Raymond Ainley 1E Yorks. Later commissioned 7EYR

11401 L/Cpl Francis George Dibden Notts & Derby. POW 1914.

8030 Cpl Ernest Matthews Depot, Suffolk Regiment. MM & KIA 2nd Oct 1918.

8761 L/Cpl Cyril George Smith, 2nd Suffolk. MGC 14089 & commissioned Shropshire LI and Lincs Regt.

A/Br R Wesley, 23rd Coy, RGA

L/8461 L/Cpl Henry John Seymour, 1 Buffs. KIA 28th Sept 1915.

61672 Bombardier James Henry Charles Worsell, 88th Batt RFA. KIA 11th Oct 1916.

L15075 L/Cpl Stanley R Richards, 1 Royal Fusiliers

34553 A/B Thomas Reginald Stackpole, 5th Batt RFA (Possibly)

L/13788 L/Cpl Frederick George Green, 4th Middx. POW 1914.

8859 L/Cpl William David Adams, 20th Hussars. KIA 25th Nov 1917. 

3233 L/Cpl John Brewster, 12th Lancers. Commissioned Aug17 Royal Berks/RAF.

9067 Cpl Reginald Walter Ellis, 1st Somerset LI. Commissioned 1914 SLI. 

9540 L/Cpl William John Protheroe Hobbs, 1 Devonshire. KIA 24th Apr 1916. 

Cpl W Danaby, Depot Gloucs Regt. Believe this to be 7388 William Thomas Danahy MC. Commissioned Sep 1916. MC citation EG pg671 05Feb19.

36013 A/Br W Bleach, 24th Batt RGA

11299 Cpl George Forster, 2nd RDF. POW 1914.

11544 Cpl James O'Donnell, 2nd RDF

9347 Cpl Edgar Madock Stacey, 1 Lincs. KIA 1st Nov 1914. 

10229 L/Cpl Thomas Edward Tyson 2nd Welsh Regimeant. KIA 7th Nov 1914.

7460 L/Cpl Alexander George Syme, 2nd Scots Guards. Commissioned Royal Scots. MM & DSO winner? 

9457 Cpl Albert G Jeffries, 2nd Royal Sussex. SWB. 'Reverted to Pte at his own request 11th Sep 1914'.

9120 L/Cpl Nigel Graham, 1 Cameron. KIA 21st Oct 1914 age 19. 

6138 Cpl Thomas Giffard, 1 Hants. KIA 13th May 1915.

L Cpl H Barnett, 1Grenadier Gds. Possibly Harry Leonard Barnett 15972 KIA 04Nov14 with 2nd Bn age 21. 

8806 Cpl Henry Charles Rudolph Ebert, 1 Leics. SWB/Injured. Served No 568 Army Gym Staff. 

4186 A/Cpl Frank Smalley, 1 Rifle Brigade

Cpl J Widdonson, 2 Y & L. Believe this to be 2/10160 John Allison Dean Widdowson. Pre-war regular he was KIA 1st July 1916 with 13th Bn Y&L. 

9684 Cpl Arthur Stanlake Huxford, 2 S Lancs. POW 1914. Doberitz.

A/Br J Howard, 41st Co RGA

L/10253 L/Cpl Cecil Daniel Wakeford, 1 Royal West Surrey

8900 L/Cpl Roland Alfred Martin, 2nd Ox & Bucks

9013 L/Cpl Roland Allen Bird, 1 Hants. KIA 22nd Mar 1915 age 21.

9800 L/Cpl Harry Myers, 2nd West Riding. SWB/Injured. 

10308 Cpl Charles Harris, 2nd Border Regiment. KIA 23rd Oct 1914 age 22. 

6383 L/Cpl Albert Fuller, 1 Scots Gds

10929 Cpl Lawrence Wilson, 1 King's. KIA 10th Mar 1915.

Either 659 Cpl George Brown or 668 Cpl George Brown, Depot A&SH

52 Cpl RB Oliver, Depot Seaforh Highlanders. Commissioned RFC. MiD LG 15Aug17. MSM LG 16Aug17.

Cpl WS Bryce, 24th Batt RGA

9895 Cpl Ralph William Victor Midlane, 2nd KRRC. Commissioned RFC. Served ADRIC and wounded IRA ambush Jun1921. 

9089 Cpl Leslie Ludwick, Depot Shropshire LI. Discharged May17.

8700 L/Sgt Arthur Stevens, Depot Somerset LI

2744 A/Cpl Frank N Ford, 2nd Life Guards

2399 Sgt Robert Conaron, 1st Rifle Brigade. MSM LG 03Jan20.

15175 L/ Sgt GH Masterman, 3rd Grenadier Gds. DCM LG 14Nov16. MIC address HMP Wandsworth 1924.

L/8018 Cpl Stanley R Preston, Depot Middx

4534 A/Cpl Stephen Haggett, 3rd Rifle Brigade. KIA 9th Apr 1917 age 23.

A/Br H Groves, 108th Batt RGA

9743 Cpl Edward Johnstone, 1 Cheshire. Commissioned 2nd Cheshire Jan17. Capt Punjabis. 

8880 L/Cpl Reginald Moon, 1 Hants

Sgt William C Kennedy, 2 Lancs Fus

6516 Sgt James S King, 2nd South Staffs

Army Schoolmasters: GH Emery, AR Mathieson, R Reid, Lt FW Glover, HS Mills, FG Woolnough.

Edited 11 February , 2019 by mrfrank
More detail

[mrfrank]

 

Edited 6 February , 2019 by mrfrank

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Mike

Without having the exact reference in King's Regulations to had, I'm fairly sure that you needed to have a First Class Certificate in education in order to be promoted to Sergeant. The ranks of the men quoted seem to bear out this hypothesis, although there seem to be three men who already hold that rank - perhaps provisionally promoted?

Ron

[sotonmate]

The three 1st Hampshire men listed:

Corporal Thomas Giffard 6138. KIA 13 May 1915 as a Sergeant. 1914 Star Trio.

Lance Corporal Roland Alan Bird 9013. KIA 22 Mar 1915 as a Sergeant. MID Feb 1915 and a Trio (only saw the MID card but likely to be 1914 Star).

Lance Corporal Reginald Moon 8880. Seems to have survived to war's end and as a WOII. 1914 Star Trio.

[ss002d6252]

Hello Mike

Without having the exact reference in King's Regulations to had, I'm fairly sure that you needed to have a First Class Certificate in education in order to be promoted to Sergeant. The ranks of the men quoted seem to bear out this hypothesis, although there seem to be three men who already hold that rank - perhaps provisionally promoted?

Ron

Something I'd never thought of before.

Just took a look at the K.R. - some positions as a Serjeant required 1st class and some 2nd Class certificates.

Craig

[Ron Clifton]

Thanks Craig.

My copy of KR wasn't readily to hand but I did vaguely remember a paragraph along the lines you quoted.

Ron

[mrfrank]

As a first stage, finally got round to trawling the Medal Index Cards to obtain more information on those featured in this photo so have added the extra information to post #1. As usual, the MICs were a bit hit and miss and there are some photographer's spelling mistakes to the mount with regards to some names. At least the fuller names will help with any future searching. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 6 February , 2019 by mrfrank

[Guest]

Hello my name is Mark Hobbs and I’m very interested in the class photo you posted. My great Uncle William John Protheroe Hobbs is on this photograph. Myself and my father went to Arras to visit his grave a few years ago. My Father would love to see a photo of him as of the four Uncles he had , he never new William as he died long before my father was born.

[AFairchild]

9684 Corporal Arthur Stanlake Huxford was my primary school teacher at Butlocks Heath nr Southampton in 1956.  He was an inspirational man who got me through the 11 plus.  He was proud about being an old contemptible and spoke about the hard time he had as a prisoner in salt mines in WW1.  According to my research he was wounded in the retreat from Mons probably on the 24th August 1914 being treated at the hospital in Jemappes near Mons before being transferred to prison camps in Germany.  He was one of the small number of NCOs transferred to Holland in Feb 1918 thus missing the starvation and privation endured by prisoners up until November 1918.  He remained in the army in the Education Corps and also served in Intelligence in WW2.  I remember a conversation he had with two young German exchange teachers, one male, one female, in 1956.    To the German male teacher..." I was in Crete but you did not catch me...I suppose you were too young to serve in the war".  Answer " No- I was was in Uboats".  A good conversation stopper and fascinating for the pupils.

He was a geat man, fondly remembered, even though he was old school and a believer in coporal punishment.  I would much appreciate a close up pic from the group.

[charlie962]

On 30/07/2014 at 10:56, mrfrank said:

A/Br R Wesley, 23rd Coy, RGA

This would seem to be 27461 Ralph Wesley, who attested RA 1907 having previously been Essex Militia 9841. At attestation he claimed he was 23 when he was actually born 11/6/1879 Essex, ie aged 28? Died 1954 Chichester. A grocer and ARP warden in 1939 register Chichester. 

1914 Star, 4th Seige Bty RGA, disch 5/7/18 silver War Badge.

Service records survive for both Essex Militia and RGA.

My question is what was he doing on this course if he'd already gained his 1st Class Cert in 1908? Was he staff?

Below are extracts from his record on FindmyPast 

 

 

[charlie962]

On 30/07/2014 at 11:56, mrfrank said:

34553 A/B Thomas Reginald Stackpole, 5th Batt RFA (Possibly)

I think you are correct. 

1911 census Portsmouth has Thos Reginald Stackpole, 20, Driver, 5th Battery RFA, b BlackMale, Kilkenny.  

34553 Thomas Reginald Stackpole will have attested Dec 1904. He comes from an Army family, son of Thos Allen Stackpole, 2789,Colour Sgt of the R Irish Regiment(whose service file survives). 

1914 Star entry 23/8/14 with Ammunition Column 29 Bde RFA. transferred to RGA 13/12/17 and renumbered 187196. At some stage K anti-aircraft battery.

Born 7/11/1890. Married 1919 Liskeard to Annie Hancock. Living 1939 Newton Abbott, general labourer. Death registered 1941 Newton Abbott. 

But my question here is why did he remain Gnr on 14Star Roll and Gnr on BWM/VM roll?

 

[mrfrank]

In response to the recent replies on this thread, here’s a closer image of William Hobbs. 
I’ve just PM’d AFairchild with the image requested.

The extra information provided by Charlie962 on Wesley & Stackpole is much appreciated. 

[charlie962]

On 30/07/2014 at 10:56, mrfrank said:

A/Br H Groves, 108th Batt RGA

Henry Thomas Groves , 29984 1403951 and P62765.

Born 17/5/93 Sheerness, attested Dublin 30/10/08. LSGC 1927. Commissioned 5/4/34. Died 15/7/45.

Service record held by MoD. entry in RA Attestations Ledger(Findmypast).

France 16/8/14 with 108 Heavy Battery RGA.

 

Attached 112 Bde RFA and Z/25 TM Battery when he won his DCM, LG 22/9/16.

 

[Wakeford]

I have been doing some family research and found this thread and details of the photo.  My husband's father was Cecil Daniel Wakeford who served in the first and second world wars.  I understand that he achieved the rank of RSM.  My husband has very few photos of his father so would be very grateful for a clip /close up of him.    Cecil survived the wars and passed away around 1964.  

[Michelle Young]

Welcome to the forum. Hopefully, @mrfrank should be able to assist. 

[mrfrank]

Thank you……PM sent.