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Remembered Today:

Brodies with badges...


trajan
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Senior officers for the use thereof...

Apologies in advance if this is a well known subject/photograph, but it is new to me and a quick GWF search did not throw up any obvious match...

This is from L’Album de la Guerre (Paris 1926), vol II, p. 762, showing George V with Currie at Vimy / Messines, and so I suppose about June 1917...

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post-69449-0-90567800-1406389430_thumb.j

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This subject has been covered on a number of threads. Badges on helmets though not widespread were worn. Some members have posted images of helmets from their collections. Both officers and ORs wore them.

There are many wrong badged Brodie helmets out there.

TT

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I wonder how those specific badges are fixed to the cover.

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This subject has been covered on a number of threads. Badges on helmets though not widespread were worn. Some members have posted images of helmets from their collections. Both officers and ORs wore them.

There are many wrong badged Brodie helmets out there.

TT

I guessed they had been covered before - but trying searching GWF for badged brodies and one get's nowt! There does not seem to be a dedicated thread - if there is, then my profuse apologies for missing it... As I said in the OP - "Apologies in advance if this is a well known subject/photograph, but it is new to me and a quick GWF search did not throw up any obvious match..." :thumbsup:

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Here is one of Mine, RAMC officer, presumably a Dr. The bone initials I have never figured out with cerainty. IIRC the side flash is the div insignia for the 47 Div.

ramcoutside.jpg

ramcbadge.jpg

ramcinitials.jpg

ramcdivflash.jpg

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Thank you, Scott M! I think I do remember seeing these before.

What intrigued me about the photograph of George V and Currie was the way that Currie and the somewhat portly GS man with him have their rank badges on their helmets (and at that in slightly different locations). Made me wonder if that is where the US of A got the idea from in later times, as e.g., Blood and Guts Patton.

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The 5th Brigade of the US 2nd Division, (US Marines), wore the EGA above the painted US Indian Head insignia. Other than painted US division insignia, can't recall seeing any other affixed badges to US helmets,

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Garyowen

Are u saying they wore them in France. If so I don't entirely agree. Some may any have done towards the end but not sure how widespread? Limited photo evidence? Wonder if any relic helmets have ever been dug up with the EGA affixed.

TT

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I'm not even sure some of the helmets seen with badges now had them during the conflict.

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I would tend to agree with you, that some/many of the badged brodies now seen did not have badges on them during the actual conflict, although there is no doubt (according to the source) as to the June 1917 date of the photograph of Currie and the GS officer with him as shown in the OP, and in which they both have rank badges on their tin-lids.

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post-112878-0-06984200-1406642201_thumb.post-112878-0-42105200-1406642229_thumb.post-112878-0-16105200-1406642246_thumb.Very common for the EGA to be found on USMC helmets from the 5th Bde. Will dig up a pic of one. They go for very high dollar if original, one of the discerning marks is the EGA with or with out lat/long lines to show if its from the time period.

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Here in the UK I am dubious of any item that goes for top dollar if they start appearing in numbers never seen before.

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Most EGA helmets with insignia are post 11/11. In theatre / Army of Occupation yes but combat?

Which should a early EGA have lat / long or not?

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What intrigued me about the photograph of George V and Currie was the way that Currie and the somewhat portly GS man with him have their rank badges on their helmets (and at that in slightly different locations). Made me wonder if that is where the US of A got the idea from in later times, as e.g., Blood and Guts Patton.

Hi Trajan,

They are not rank badges, but the cap badge for general officers.

Cheers

Chris

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Thanks Chris - my terminology up the spout there... But didn't they wear something similar on the shoulder as well?

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Garyowen

Are u saying they wore them in France. If so I don't entirely agree. Some may any have done towards the end but not sure how widespread? Limited photo evidence? Wonder if any relic helmets have ever been dug up with the EGA affixed.

TT

There is some photographic evidence that EGAs were affixed to helmets during the war, and I know of at least one relic helmet with an EGA that was dug near Belleau Wood. Circumstantial evidence for EGAs is the significant number of helmets punched with two holes, one right in the forehead area, and then another above the 2nd Division insignia.

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regimentalrogue,

Thanks so much for posting such excellent photos of a very interesting helmet. I can't think I have seen one in better condition. Given the 1917 date I suspect that Hawkes & Co. purchased a stock of "raw edge" helmets and continued to supply them to customers after the later version with added rim became available.

Although I am uncertain that it applied to private purchase items, the 1917 date may also fit in with the General Routine Order (GRO 1997) of 14th December 1916 which provided: "Drilling holes in steel helmets to enable badges to be worn weakens the structure of its steel and reduces its power of protection. The practice is therefore forbidden. Badges, if required, can be painted or stencilled in a neutral tint". The grey, somewhat reflective, paint on your helmet seems to be typical of Hawkes & Co. helmets. I have a similar example in my collection which, although it has been repainted to the entire exterior and interior brim, has identical paint to the interior helmet bowl.

Anyway, once again many thanks.

Regards,

Michael.

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aef1917. Thanks. Compelling evidnce.

TT

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aef1917. Thanks. Compelling evidnce.

TT

Only IF we have a war-time date and location on that photograph! AEF1917?

Note also that only three of the 12 have badges on their helmets. So, an unofficial modification?

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Only IF we have a war-time date and location on that photograph! AEF1917?

Note also that only three of the 12 have badges on their helmets. So, an unofficial modification?

June 18, 1918. They're officers of the 2nd Bn, 6th Marines, and the photo was taken near Belleau Wood.

Up to this point, the Marines still had their forest green uniform,s which would have distinguished them from regular doughboys, and perhaps the EGAs on helmets were an affectation of some officers (much as some opted to wear Adrian helmets). As the Marine forest green uniforms were replaced by Army olive drab, more rank-and-file Marines may have added the EGA to their helmets as a point of pride.

I doubt that it was ever as universal a practice during the war as depicted in period artwork, but I'm sure it was not exactly an aberration in the 4th Marine Brigade.

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Fair enough! :thumbsup: And thanks!

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