P14 stock marking

[ricasso]

I've had this rifle for about a year or so now, however while doing the research I'm getting confused with the "Weedon" connection.

It has its volley sights but its also marked with the * on the bolt and the receiver?

I thought the star indicated it had been through Weedon? therefore it shouldnt have the volley sights

also on the stock it's marked IR 1916 I'm guessing Infantry Regiment?

the serial is 182214 which I'm thinking is towards the end of production so how would this be issued in 1916?

[msdt]

Hi Ricasso,

All P14's had volley sights originally, 1 and 1*. The 'Weedon Repair Standard' changes were done prior to WW2 to prepare them for the next conflict!

The butt marking is nice, it's the original Remington stamp. Not sure what the I stands for, but R is Remington. I don't know serial to date data to say if the serial matches the 1916 on the wood.

Cheers,

Tony

[msdt]

The other post on the same topic has some detail stuff re Weedon. I see that IR means Inspected Remington!
Tony

[4thGordons]

I think it is I (roman numeral 1) R *

There were some compatibility/interchangeability issues between manufacturers (at least according to the British Govt inspectors) and this led to three (later 6) designations for the rifles

Pattern 14 MkI R [Remington]

Pattern 14 MkI E [Remington-Eddystone]

Pattern 14 MkI W [Winchester]

then after the modification to the bolt head there was

Pattern 14 MkI* R [Remington]

Pattern 14 MkI* E [Remington-Eddystone]

Pattern 14 MkI* W [Winchester]

In British usage a *(star/asterisk) designates a minor change not requiring a new model designation.

So what you see on the stamp is I (for MkI) R (for Remington) and * for the enlarged bolt lugs.

There is a star mark for weedon (although it is a little contested among collectors) this is on the wood furniture, usually on the bottom of the pistol grip of the butt and it is a 6 pointed star (like the star of David) over a number (signifying the contractor). This is quite a small stamp less than half an inch high. Most references suggest about 55% of P14 production went through WRS. (many had been sold overseas and others were delivered direct to India)

Chris

Edit

For sake of completeness I should probably mention there were also MkI*W (F) fitted with Fine adjustment rear sights and MkI*W (T) fitted with an optical telescopic site (1918)

There is one other mark that sometimes shows up on P14s especially early ones and this is largish (.33inch) Maltese Cross on the butt side which indicates "Emergency Use Only" apparently prompted by concerns over the early production standards and classified by the inspectors as "doubtful".

Edited 15 July , 2014 by 4thGordons

[ricasso]

Thanks chaps for helping to fill in some of the blanks in my knowledge, much appreciated!

[msdt]

That makes sense Chris, I see that there is a nice * on the butt by the 1R.

Cheers,

Tony

[TonyE]

A little bit of a mystery this one. Chris has explained your butt markings but like you, I am puzzled by the serial number.

According to Ministry of Munitions records, 182214 was accepted at the factory by British inspectors in w/e 10 February 1917, yet it is stamped 1916. I suppose it could have been made and stamped in late December 1916 but not accepted until February but that seems a long gap.

Production at Remington continued to serial c. 403000 in August 1917.

Regards

TonyE

[4thGordons]

A little bit of a mystery this one. Chris has explained your butt markings but like you, I am puzzled by the serial number.

According to Ministry of Munitions records, 182214 was accepted at the factory by British inspectors in w/e 10 February 1917, yet it is stamped 1916. I suppose it could have been made and stamped in late December 1916 but not accepted until February but that seems a long gap.

Production at Remington continued to serial c. 403000 in August 1917.

Regards

TonyE

I don't think it is stamped 1916 Tony.

At least it shouldn't be. The mark is the pattern (not the date) it should be IR 1914 within a circle with the broad arrow at the top and a * outside the circle at about 2 o'clock (for Remington MkI* 1914)

The stampings on the P14 butt are model not date related (AFAIK there are no date stamps on P14s which is why your data is so useful!)

Looking at the stamping in the photo I think someone has scratched in a 6 over a faded/partially erased 4.

Chris

[TonyE]

You are of course right Chris, I had forgotten that.

Here is an enlarged image of the stamp. It looks almost like a blemish rather than a deliberate alteration.

Regards

TonyE

[ricasso]

I think your right Chris, I took another photo, this time at an angle to try to show it better, it does certainly look like it's had the six added at a later date, and not done very well I might add! you can almost make out the original 4 which is in line with the other digits, anyway, here's the photo, see what you think..by the way, any thoughts on why someone would want to change it?