Attestation books - where they were sent by the MOD/Nat Archives

[nhclark]

An addition to this thread.

I have just discovered that the books for both the Royal Army Service Corps and the Royal Army Ordnance Corps are on the Royal Logistics Corps Digital Archive website at http://www.rlcarchive.org/. You can go directly to the search page for the books at http://www.rlcarchive.org/EnlistmentSrch.aspx.

This is a pay-to-view site, minimum pay-to-view subscription is 5GBP for 20 credits.

Noel

[Sepoy]

On 11/07/2014 at 05:57, kildaremark said:

I wonder what happened to the books of the disbanded Irisb regiments albeit only covering 1920-22?

They are now on line here
https://www.nam.ac.uk/soldiers-records/persons

Sepoy

Edited 3 March , 2017 by Sepoy

[Justinth]

I recently made another enquiry/explained to the now Museum of Military Medicine about the existence of the AB358s and how they were distributed to museums by the MoD in the 2000s. The Museum have now looked through their archive and found the post Army renumbering (from 1920) AB 358 Enlistment/Discharge books for the RAMC. I also subsequently asked a few weeks ago what years the books they have cover beyond 1920 and am waiting for a reply. Another question comes to mind about the same books for the other ranks in the Royal Army Veterinary Corps etc so much more to be explored.

 

Best

 

Justin

 

 

Edited 1 July , 2017 by Justinth

[charlie962]

well done!

[Justinth]

Posted here to keep this thread up-to-date (posted earlier today under RAMC attestation books):

 

Here is the list of RAMC and RAVC enlistment books with thanks to Rob McIntosh at the Museum of Military Medicine who kindly sent me the list. There are several records of interest for those interested in Great War soldiers who continued or re-enlisted (plus RAVC books) following the renumbering of the Army in 1920. The Defence Force records and those for the T.A. should also capture information about a number of Great War veterans. I have also kept in records more likely to be relevant to later soldiers because of the possibility of re-enlistment and in case any one is interested in post WW1 soldiers in these corps :

 

Box 12. Army Book 358 –RAMC Enlistment Books

 

1.     Book 4 –Regimental Nos. 206000 to 206999 (Old Nos.) 7252147 to 7252744 – 19 August to 3 October 1919.

2.     Book 5 – Regimental Nos. 207000 to 207999 (Old Nos.) 7252745 to 7253512 – 13 November 1919 to 8 March 1920.

3.     Book 6 – Regimental Nos. 208000 to 208393 (Old Nos.) 7253513 to 7253850 – 3 March 1920 to 4 September 1920.

4.     Book 18 – Regimental Nos. 7536001 to 7536991 – 22 April 1921 to 7 October 1940 and Transfers and Discharges.

 

Box 13. Army Book 358 –RAMC Enlistment Books

 

1.     Odd Numbers Book 1 – Transfers and Discharges 1921, 1925, 1926 and 1927.

2.     Odd Numbers Book 3 – Transfers in from 1920 to 1938.

 

 

Box 14. Army Book 358 –RAMC Enlistment Books

 

1.     Register of Army Numbers with relative old regimental numbers RAMC Names and Numbers only. Numbers 7249001 to7253000.

2.      Register of Army Numbers with relative old regimental numbers RAMC Names and Numbers only.

Numbers 7253001 to 7256025

 

Box 15. Army Book 358

 

1.     Transfers to RAVC from other Units Book 1 – Regimental Numbers and dates not concurrent.

 

 

2.     Transfers to RAVC from other Units Book 2 – Regimental Numbers and dates not concurrent.

 

 

3.     Transfers to RAVC from other Units Book 3 – From 27 January 1943 to 12 October 1944.

 

 

4.     Transfers to RAVC from other Units Book 3 – From 12 October 1944 to 9 April 1954.

 

 

5.     Register of Soldiers RADC - Regimental Numbers 10510033 to 10510057 20 February 1941 to 14 November 1947.

 

 

6.     Register of Soldiers RADC - Regimental Numbers 7536992 to 7536999 and 10510001 to 10511596 no enlistment dates.

 

 

7.     Register of Soldiers RADC - Regimental Numbers 7537000 to 7537999 – no enlistment dates.

 

 

8.     Register of Soldiers RADC - Regimental Numbers 7538001 to 7539000 – no enlistment dates.

 

 

Box 16. Army Book 358 – RAMC Enlistment Books

 

1.     Book 11 – Regimental Numbers 7255009 to 7255992 – 13 December 1920 to 11 July 1921.

 

 

2.     Book 12 – Regimental Numbers 7255993 to 7256997 -12 July 1921 to 25 November 1922.

 

 

3.     Book 13 – Regimental Numbers 7256998 to 7258000 – 18 December 1922 to 31 January 1925.

 

 

Box 17. Army Book 358 – RAMC Enlistment Books

 

1.     Book 9 (TA) – Regimental Numbers 7350001 to 7350346 – 15 October 1924 to 26 May 1939.

 

 

2.     Category “C” Supp Reserve – Regimental Numbers 7354001 to 7354608 and Odd Numbers – 15 October 1924 to 16 July 1938. (Odd numbers up to 3 April 1939)

 

 

3.     Category “C” Supp Reserve – Regimental Numbers 7354609 to 7354984 and odd numbers – 1 September 1939 to 4 September 1939.

 

Box 18. Army Book 358 – Defence Force Units RAMC List of Members

 

1.     Book 2 – 1^st, 2nd & 3^rd West Riding Field Ambulance - April 1921.

                  Headquarters West Riding Med - April 1921.

                  Northern Sanitary Section - April 1921.

                  1^st, 2^nd & 3^rd West Lancs Field Ambulance – April 1921.

                  1^st, 2nd & 3^rd Northumbrian Field Ambulance – April 1921.

2.     Book 3  – 1st, 2^nd, 3^rd, 4^th, 5^th & 6^th London Field Ambulances – April 1921.

                  1^st, 2^nd & 3^rd Welsh Field Ambulances – April 1921.

                  Welsh (53 Div) Sanitary Section – April 1921.

                  Headquarters 1^st & 2^nd London Field Ambulances – No entries.

                  Headquarters Welsh Field Ambulance – No entries.

3.     Book 4 -   1^st, 2^nd & 3^rd Highland Field Ambulance - April 1921.

                  Highland Sanitary Section –April 1921.

                  1^st, 2^nd & 3^rd Lowland Field Ambulance – April 1921.

                  1^st, 2^nd & 3^rd Home Counties Field Ambulance –April 1921.

                  Headquarters Highland Medical Services                  - April 1921.

4.     Book 5 -  1^st, 2^nd & 3^rd East Lancs Field Ambulance- April 1921.

                 Headquarters East Lancs – April 1921.

                 East Lancs Sanitary Section.

                 1^st, 2^nd & 3^rd Wessex Field Ambulance April 1921.

                 Headquarters Wessex – April 1921.

                 Wessex Sanitary Section.

 

 

Box 19. Army Book 358 – Regimental Numbers RAVC.

 

1.     Book 1 – 7757001 to 7757999 – 30 June 1902 to 25 November 1939.

 

 

2.     Book 2 - 758000 to 758708 – 27 November 1919 to 28 August 1943.

 

 

3.     Book 3 – 782001 to 782872 – 20 May 1920 to 30 August 1939.

 

 

4.     Book 4 – 7800001 to 7800594 – 9 July 1920 to 18 August 1924.

 

 

5.     Book 5 – 7801001 to 7801154 – 21 October 1924 to 2 May 1928.

 

 

       

Box 20. Army Book 358 – Regimental Numbers RAMC (TA).

 

1.     Book 1 - 7335001 to 7335996 – 29 March 1920 to 2 June 1920.

 

 

2.     Book 2 – 7335997 to 7336994 – 16 June 1920 to 17 January 1921.

 

 

3.     Book 3 – 7335995 to 7337963 – 21 January 1921 to 5 July 1921.

 

 

4.     Book 4 - 7337964 to 7338936 – 8 July 1921 to 8 September 1921.

 

 

5.     Book 5 – 7338937 to 7339934 -8 September 1921 to 14 August 1923.

 

 

Box 21. Army Book 358 – Regimental Numbers RAMC.

 

1.     Book 14 – 7258001 to 7259000 -31 January 1925 to 6 October 1927.

 

 

2.     Book 15 – 7259001 to 7260000 – 10 October 1927 to 9 December 1929.

 

 

3.     Book 16 – 7260001 to 7261000 -10 December 1929 to 23 March 1931.

 

 

Box 22. Army Book 358 – Regimental Numbers RAMC.

 

1.     Book 6 (TA) – 7339935 to 7340946 – 20 August 1923 to 27 November 1925.

 

 

2.     Book 7 (TA) 7340947 to 7341946 – 1 December 1925 to 4 December 1928.

 

 

3.     Book 8 (TA) 7341947 to 7342951 -3 December 1928 to 23 April 1931.

 

 

4.     Cat “B” Supp Reserves Transfers and Odd Numbers – 1924 to 1929.

 

 

Box 23. Army Book 358 – Regimental Numbers RAMC.

 

1.     Book 6 -7250004 to 7251017 – 30 June 1920 to 15 March 1919. (Dates in reverse)

 

 

2.     Book 7 -7251018 to 7252007 -10 February 1919 to 22 August 1919.

 

 

3.     Book 8 – 7252008 to 7252997 -22 August 1919 to 20 November 1919.

 

 

4.     Book 9 – 7252998 to 7254019 -20 November 1919 to 1 September 1915 (Dates not concurrent)

 

 

5.     Book 10 – 7254020 to 7255008 -7 September 1915 to 11 December 1920 (Dates not concurrent)

 

 

Box 24. Army Book 358 RAMC.

 

1.     Non-European Section – West Indian African –Names 12 August 1898 to 5 April 1927.

 

 

2.     Register of Army Numbers with Relative Old Regimental Numbers (Names and Numbers Only)

 

 

3.     Book1 -Old Regimental Numbers with Army Numbers Re Allocated – 200000 to 201000 / 7250155 to 7251086.

 

 

4.     Book 2 -Old Regimental Numbers with Army Numbers Re Allocated – 201001 to 201493 / 7251087 to 7252543.

 

 

5.     Book 3 -Old Regimental Numbers with Army Numbers Re Allocated – 205000 to 205999 / 7251544 to 7252146.

 

 

Box 25. Army Book 358 Regimental Numbers RAMC.

 

1.     Book 1 -7245001 to 7246004 – 22 February 1900 to 12 October 1909.

 

 

2.     Book 2 – 7246005 to 7247007 – 13 October 1909 to 29 November 1912.

 

 

3.     Book 3 -7247005 to 7248006 -2 December 1912 to 21 November 1914.

 

 

4.     Book 4 – 7248007 to 7249007 – 25 November 1914 to 8 October 1919.

 

 

5.     Book 5 – 7249008 to 7250003 – 9 October 1919 to 23 June 1920.

 

 

6.     Old Regimental Numbers with Army Numbers Allocated. (Numbers and Dates not Concurrent)

 

 

 

Edited 1 July , 2017 by Justinth

[Justinth]

Just to bump up this thread as I found that the link to it on my website had stopped working (now fixed).

 

If you are not familiar with the role of the AB358 Enlistment books (ignore the title of the thread) their central role after 1900 alongside the AB 216 for the Territorial Force and the the AB 259 for the Special Reserve is explained here:

 

https://warrecordsrevealed.com/2018/03/15/some-new-evidence-for-the-arrangement-of-ww1-british-army-service-records-in-army-record-offices/

 

The books intended role as the main Army personnel records intended to be preserved for posterity when the service files and Part II Orders had been scrapped is explained here in the context of Arnside (and its predecessor at Isleworth):

 

https://warrecordsrevealed.com/2018/03/15/arnside-street-war-office-record-centre-1934-1940-plus-percy-house-schools-1919-1933/

 

Their use by the staff at R.Records is discussed here:

 

https://warrecordsrevealed.com/percy-house-schools-and-arnside-street-documentary-evidence-for-r-records-work-with-ww1-service-records/

 

The relevant War Office document destruction schedule agreed with the P.R.O., which was in place from 1923 and which also set out the permanent preservation of the AB 358s can be found here (it includes information on a vast range of documents, not just the AB 358s):

 

https://warrecordsrevealed.com/1923-schedule-of-public-records-war-office-schedule-containing-a-list-and-particulars-of-certain-classes-of-documents-existing-or-accruing-in-the-office-of-his-majestys-principal-secretary-of-s/

 

 

Best

 

 

Justin

Edited 6 July , 2018 by Justinth

[MaureenE]

A valuable source of records. Thanks for the update.

 

Cheers

Maureen

[Keith_history_buff]

On 12/07/2014 at 17:57, Justinth said:

From the Lincolnshire Archives website for the Royal Lincolnshire Regiment:

'Registers of soldiers (Army Book 358)

 Reference Name REGI/3

Volume numbers 1 to 8 and 3/29 provide the following information: army number, name, date of attestation (in cases where a soldier re-joined the army, the date of re-enlistment is also given), age on attestation , place of attestation, trade on enlistment (profession), place of birth, name of spouse/next-of-kin, address of next of kin, details of campaigns/wound/medals, date of discharge, place of discharge, cause of discharge, rank on discharge, address on discharge and particulars of former service.

Volume numbers 9-28 provide the following information: army number, name and details of transfer to another corps or cause of becoming non-effective.

There is an index of names at the back of each volume.

Repository: Lincolnshire Archives [057]'

http://www.lincstothepast.com/Registers-of-soldiers--Army-Book-358-/986152.record?pt=S

 

Would it be the case that every Enlistment Register (Army Book 358) would have an index of names, from what others have seen? Would the index state the seven digit service number, or just the page number?

I don't recall seeing indexes for the WO 67 description books for the Royal Warwickshire Regiment (1890-1908) and the South Wales Borderers (1881-1897), way back when I accessed them at Kew.

[stiletto_33853]

Keith,

The 358  go by numbers issued, no index seen in the 358's I have seen.

 

Andy

[Keith_history_buff]

Andy, 
Thanks for the response, and for the images from the Rifle Brigade's Enlistment Register.

Regards
Keith

[stabilis]

The Suffolk Regiment 358s (Suffolk Record Office, Bury St Edmunds) are all indexed.

[Keith_history_buff]

Thanks for this.

If a person was interested in trying to compile a seven digit number list for a given regiment, and did not want to use the Ancestry database, the original FoI response to Justin is located here, listing persons with surviving service records with a birth date prior to 1901. There's a lot of data in those spreadsheets.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/foi-responses-released-by-mod-week-commencing-1-december-2014?fref=gc&dti=302369916601668

[Keith_history_buff]

I was doing some research on a man, and to my surprise, he is on Ancestry. Although it appears to have been around since 2015, it was the first I had seen of this. 

He re-enlisted in the 22nd Bn London Regiment after the war, and he is documented in the Enlistment book. It records his (recycled) seven digit service number, place of birth, date of birth, attestation date, place of enlistment, trade upon enlistment, former service (regimental no, regiment, 22 years duration of service), terms of service (4 years), details of wife, children, marriage & birth dates along with location. Thereafter it states his discharge date, reason for discharge, and rank upon discharge.

It appears the book was passed to the Queen's West Surreys upon disbandment of the London Regiment.

 

Name of dataset:

Surrey, England, Regimental Rolls and Recruitment Registers, 1914-1947

 

Link to dataset on Ancestry:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/4865/

[MaureenE]

From the Mercian Regiment Museum (Worcestershire) website

"Post-WW1 Ledgers"

https://worcestershireandmercianregimentmuseum.org/worcestershire-regiment-ancestors/post-ww1-ledgers/ includes a transcription of names, but not full information.

 

Maureen

[Keith_history_buff]

On 07/04/2021 at 01:53, MaureenE said:

From the Mercian Regiment Museum (Worcestershire) website

"Post-WW1 Ledgers"

https://worcestershireandmercianregimentmuseum.org/worcestershire-regiment-ancestors/post-ww1-ledgers/ includes a transcription of names, but not full information.

 

Maureen

A few weeks after this post, I paid for a lookup for a WW1 soldier who reenlisted in the Worcestershire Regiment. The service I received was excellent, and I would recommend this. My experiences of dealing with military museums is generally negative, not so in this instance.

On 11/07/2014 at 21:59, clive_hughes said:

The Royal Welch Fusiliers registers are not at Caernarfon but currently in storage along with most of the regiment's archives. It is hoped to make them available again shortly.

Clive

I gather these have been accessible via FindMyPast since 2017
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-records/british-army-royal-welch-fusiliers-1807-1948

[MaureenE]

The link I quoted above is now https://www.worcestershireandmercianregimentmuseum.org/research-2/worcestershire-regiment-ancestors/post-ww1-ledgers/

Maureen

[Keith_history_buff]

  

On 15/07/2014 at 01:24, Purbecksteve said:

Would each regiment have kept separate lists of Special Reserve Soldiers prior to 1914 ,I am interested in the Dorset Regiment SR rosters 1908-1916

 

So, in answer to your question

1. Yes, the details would have been listed in a Form 359 enlistment book of those enlisted under Special Reserve terms of service
2. The bad news is that they appear to have been destroyed by the Arnside Street fire

https://warrecordsrevealed.com/2018/03/15/some-new-evidence-for-the-arrangement-of-ww1-british-army-service-records-in-army-record-offices/