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Remembered Today:

Acting Cpl. George Usher---King's Royal Rifle Corps


josquin
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Any information about A/Cpl. George Usher, C/384, KRRC, will be gratefully received.

Details and dates of service, and any prewar and postwar biographical information is

requested. He is not listed in CWGC so he survived the war.

Trelawney

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The date on his medal index card for his being sent to a theatre of War (in this case, France) is recorded as 16.11.15 which matches that for the 16th KRRC (Church Lads Brigade). The "C" prefix to the number is consistant with this Battalion. Neither fact is conclusive but might be a useful steer towards his having served with the 16th.

Perhaps one of the forum experts on the Church Lads Brigade might be able to help you

Tony

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i fully agree with Tony's observations - early volunteer into 16/KRRC, so therefore also highly likely to have been a member of the Church Lads.

There are vast amounts of info here on the Forum on this interesting KRRC battalion as well as the Church Lads Brigade, easily found w a quick forum search.

Do you have any idea of his home area? With that, Johnny may be able to add some CLB detail.

Cheers,

Mark

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Tony and Mark,

Many thanks for the information concerning Corporal Usher. His KRRC service was noteworthy--on 26 January 1917, he brought down

a German aeroplane that was forced to land behind British lines. The pilot was captured. This incident is mentioned in the current

"The War in the Air" section of this Forum. Regrettably, I have no biographical details for Usher--I was hoping the KRRC

experts here at the Forum may be able to contribute such information. There are 36 George Usher listings in the 1911 Census

for England and Wales so this has been difficult to narrow down--one was listed as "overseas military," age 27 (a birthdate of

1883 or 1884).

Best regards,

Trelawney

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This incident is recorded in the KRRC Chronicle for 1917,but under the 10th Battalion War Records, so Cpl Usher was in 10/KRRC by January 1917.

Nevertheless his C prefix service number would suggest he began his service in 16/KRRC. The BWM/VM medal roll will show his all his battalions.

It was common for riflemen to join different KRRC battalions on returning to duty after a Blighty wounding. My own grandfather began in 12/KRRC and later transferred to 16/KRRC.

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MBrockway,

Thank you for your information and suggestions for learning more about Corporal Usher. Regrettably, the destruction of the majority of OR

service records in 1940 makes the task much more challenging--your assistance is appreciated greatly.

Trelawney

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There are 36 George Usher listings in the 1911 Census

for England and Wales so this has been difficult to narrow down--one was listed as "overseas military," age 27 (a birthdate of

1883 or 1884).

Trelawney - as George Usher has a C prefix service number, he must have been a wartime volunteer with no prior service, so you can rule out the 1911 census candidate listed as 'overseas military'.
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Many thanks for the information concerning Corporal Usher. His KRRC service was noteworthy--on 26 January 1917, he brought down

a German aeroplane that was forced to land behind British lines. The pilot was captured. This incident is mentioned in the current

"The War in the Air" section of this Forum.

Trelawney

See here: German Airmen Brought Down On The 26th January, 1917

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Tony and Mark,

Many thanks for the information concerning Corporal Usher. His KRRC service was noteworthy--on 26 January 1917, he brought down

a German aeroplane that was forced to land behind British lines. The pilot was captured. This incident is mentioned in the current

"The War in the Air" section of this Forum. Regrettably, I have no biographical details for Usher--I was hoping the KRRC

experts here at the Forum may be able to contribute such information. There are 36 George Usher listings in the 1911 Census

for England and Wales so this has been difficult to narrow down--one was listed as "overseas military," age 27 (a birthdate of

1883 or 1884).

Best regards,

Trelawney

Trelawney,

How have you arrived at C/384 George Usher being the right man?

We know a Corporal Usher from 10/KRRC lead the Lewis Gun team that "grassed" the enemy plane.

C/384 George Usher has a service number typically indicating 16/KRRC and his MIC Embarkation Date of 16 Nov 1915 is also that of 16/KRRC. His MIC has him ending the war as Acting Corporal.

As I have already stated, it is perfectly possible he transferred from 16/KRRC to 10/KRRC later in the war. This could easily be checked by a look up of the BWM/VM medal roll which will show his KRR battalions.

However there is also R/2742 John W Usher.

His MIC shows him ending the war as a Serjeant and his 21 Jul 1915 Embarkation Date suggests he went out with 10/KRRC or 11/KRRC.

How have you eliminated R/2742 John W Usher from being the Corporal i/c of the 10/KRRC LG team?

There are a few other Ushers in the KRR's ...

R/37229, Charles Edward Percival Usher, 16/KRRC - KiA 13 Apr 1918

A/202679, Francis Robert Usher, 10/KRRC, later 13/KRRC - did not arrive in France until 08 Sep 1917

3933, Frank Usher, 6/KRRC (Special Reserve), enlisted as a Regular into 2/York & Lancaster Regt in Jan 1912

C/1043, William Usher, probably 16/KRRC - discharged 29 May 1916 with SWB, due to sickness

R/39602, Almen J Usher - embarked after 31 Dec 1915, no further info

Cheers,

Mark

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Trelawney has added this in the other thread ...


Mark and Chris,

I did not eliminate John W. Usher as a candidate for downing Max Winkelmann. In post #6 above, I stated that the "Cpl. Usher" mentioned in the War Diary
may have been George Usher. My reason for asking for more information from those knowledgeable about the K.R.R.C. was partly to learn whether others
were possibilities, as well. George Usher was the only Usher for whom I located a K.R.R.C. MIC, but I suspected there were others. Indeed, there were--
without service records, this may not be a problem we can sort-out. Again, I appreciate the clarifications and the additional information.

Best regards,

Trelawney
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I have read through the whole of the 10/KRRC Battalion War Record in the 1916 and 1917 editions of the KRRC Chronicle in the hope of finding another reference to "Corporal Usher" where his forename is given - no luck, so no shortcut to the answer there!.

With hindsight it were better perhaps to have asked for KRRC specialists to volunteer info on all Ushers in the KRR's :whistle:

I found six MIC's on Ancestry for USHER in the KRR's ...

#1 - USHER, Almen J, Rfn, R/39602
#2 - USHER, Charles Edward Percival, Rfn, R/37229
#3 - USHER, Francis Robert, Rfn, A/202679
#4 - USHER, George, A/Cpl, C/384
#5 - USHER, John W, Sjt, R/2742
#6 - USHER, William, Rfn, C/1043

Also a service record for ...
#3a - USHER, Frank, 3933, 6/KRRC (Special Reserve)

Our goal is to match one of these with a Corporal Usher who was in 10/KRRC on 26 Jan 1917.

#3 - USHER, Francis Robert, Rfn, A/202679 can be eliminated as he did not arrive in France until 08 Sep 1918, long after the date of the action against the German plane on 26 Jan 1917.

I investigated #3a - USHER, Frank, 3933, 6/KRRC (Special Reserve) - as I considered he might be the same man as #3 - USHER, Francis Robert, Rfn, A/202679. The A/ prefix early in the war was used for returning reservists whose number had been re-allocated. 3933 Frank Usher enlisted into the Special Reserve with the KRRC's 6th Btn in 1910, but after 18 months decided the army life suited him and he converted to a Regular re-enlisting into the 2nd Btn York & Lancaster Regt on 24 Jan 1912. He went out as an Old Contemptible and was reported MiA on 18 Oct 1914 and officially presumed dead in March 1916. Definitely not our Corporal Usher.

#6 - USHER, William, Rfn, C/1043 can be eliminated as he was discharged with a Silver War Badge due to sickness on 29 May 1916.

Of the other Ushers, I could not find anything which conclusively eliminated them, so we have to fall back on the balance of probabilities ... pending someone doing a BWM/VM medal roll look-up at Kew..

#2 - USHER, Charles Edward Percival, Rfn, R/37229 was a mid war recruit who went through the Training Reserve at Seaford indicating enlistment after Aug 1916 and making it unlikely (but not impossible) that he would be a Corporal leading a Lewis Gun team in January 1917. I do not have an embarkation date, but he was killed in action with 16/KRRC on 13 Apr 1918 with rank of Rifleman. I cannot be certain he did not spend some time in 10/KRRC before he was KiA with 16/KRRC, nor that he was not demoted before he was killed, however I feel 90% confident R/37229 Charles Usher is not our man.

I could only find an MIC as evidence for #1 - USHER, Almen J, Rfn, R/39602. He had no 1914-15 Star entitlement so he went out after 1915. His R/39602 service number would indicate a mid war enlistment similar to #2 Charles Usher. He ended the war as a Rifleman. That's pretty much all I can glean from his MIC alone. The medal roll will show his battalion. On grounds of a probable 1916 enlistment and his rank at the end of the war, I'm 60% confident he is not our man.

That leaves #4 - USHER, George, A/Cpl, C/384 and #5 - USHER, John W, Sjt, R/2742. I could find no service record for either of them and they both survived the war, so until someone looks up their BWM/VM medal roll entries at Kew, their MIC's are all we have to go on.

#4 - USHER, George, A/Cpl, C/384. Has 1914-15 Star entitlement with a Qualifying Date of 16 Nov 1915, which matches when 16/KRRC went out. He has a C prefix service number in the range allocated to 16/KRRC and 384 is early in the range suggesting he is likely to have been a former member of the Church Lad's Brigade. He ended the war as an Acting Corporal.

#5 - USHER, John W, Sjt, R/2742 also has 1914-15 Star entitlement and a Qualifying Date of 21 Jul 1915. This matches the 59th Brigade, 20th (Light) Division battalions - 10/KRRC and 11/KRRC. The service number sequence indicates he was an early Kitchener volunteer. He ended the war as a Serjeant.

It is entirely possible that C/384 George Usher transferred to 10/KRRC from 16/KRRC before January 1917 and R/2742 John W Usher is equally as likely to have been in 11/KRRC as 10/KRRC, but on the grounds that we are seeking an NCO who was in 10/KRRC in Jan 1917, my vote goes on R/2742 Sjt John W Usher being our "Corporal Usher"

If someone can do a British War Medal/Victory Medal roll look-up of the four Ushers we cannot eliminate so far, then we will get their KRRC battalions and that's likely to narrow it down considerably and possibly even identify the man conclusively.

The roll is in Service Number order as follows and I've added the roll reference for convenience. Whoever goes to Kew will need to translate that into the TNA reference to do the look-up.

#4 - C/384, USHER, George, A/Cpl - M/101B/4 p.512
#5 - R/2742, USHER, John W, Sjt - M/101B/9 (or poss 19) p.2448
#2 - R/37229, USHER, Charles Edward Percival, Rfn - M/101B/33 p.4119
#1 - R/39602, USHER, Almen J, Rfn - M/101B/34 p.4255

Cheers,
Mark

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