Uniform Identification - possibly VTC

[Helen_1914]

Could anyone help with the identification of this man's uniform please? His name was William Henry Hughes and he was born in 1887 in Pwllheli. Oral history passed down through his family says that he spent the war guarding Menai Bridge which makes me think of a possible Volunteer Training Corps connection. I can't make out any insignia on his cap or great coat. I think that's 1914 pattern leather webbing he's wearing over his great coat but no sign of the GR armband either. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[FROGSMILE]

Could anyone help with the identification of this man's uniform please? His name was William Henry Hughes and he was born in 1887 in Pwllheli. Oral history passed down through his family says that he spent the war guarding Menai Bridge which makes me think of a possible Volunteer Training Corps connection. I can't make out any insignia on his cap or great coat. I think that's 1914 pattern leather webbing he's wearing over his great coat but no sign of the GR armband either. Any help would be greatly appreciated!William Henry Hughes bridges defence.jpg

Can you try and post a close up of just his head and cap centring on the cap badge Helen, as that is the only visible regimental insignia that there is. At first glance it is noticeable that the badge is not reflecting any light and seems quite dark.

He is wearing the dismounted pattern greatcoat and, although the leather equipment does have the look of 1914 pattern, there is something about the pouches at the front that makes me think that it might be the final, 1902 pattern, Slade Wallace pattern equipment, which also had a snake clasp.

[Helen_1914]

Hello, thanks for replying, I'm afraid the image I have is so small that all attempts to enlarge the cap badge result in a greyish blur! I was surprised that the cap badge appear to be metal :-/

[FROGSMILE]

Hello, thanks for replying, I'm afraid the image I have is so small that all attempts to enlarge the cap badge result in a greyish blur! I was surprised that the cap badge appear to be metal :-/

Even the overall shape will assist Helen. Just post the largest image that you can where the overall shape/outline is still discernible.

[johnboy]

Anglesey Volunteer Reserves

The Anglesey Volunteer Reserves were formed in 1917 and men were actively recruited throughout the island. The reserves were based at the Kingsbridge camp at Llanfaes and the organisation was made up of men who were unable to enlist in the Regular Army. There were approximately 1,200 men in the AVR, under the command of Major Hugh Pritchard of Llangefni. They performed guard duties on the Menai Suspension Bridge and the Britannia Railway Bridge as a precaution against possible sabotage linked to unrest in Ireland. There were always 10 men on duty on the bridges.

[FROGSMILE]

Anglesey Volunteer Reserves

The Anglesey Volunteer Reserves were formed in 1917 and men were actively recruited throughout the island. The reserves were based at the Kingsbridge camp at Llanfaes and the organisation was made up of men who were unable to enlist in the Regular Army. There were approximately 1,200 men in the AVR, under the command of Major Hugh Pritchard of Llangefni. They performed guard duties on the Menai Suspension Bridge and the Britannia Railway Bridge as a precaution against possible sabotage linked to unrest in Ireland. There were always 10 men on duty on the bridges.

Brilliant stuff johnboy. I have no doubt that you have nailed it. It will be interesting to see, if possible, what insignia was worn.

[Helen_1914]

Thanks for all your help :-) I've tried to blow the cap badge up, the image isn't brilliant but any bigger and there's no definition at all.

[Graham Stewart]

Anglesey Volunteer Reserves

The Anglesey Volunteer Reserves were formed in 1917 and men were actively recruited throughout the island. The reserves were based at the Kingsbridge camp at Llanfaes and the organisation was made up of men who were unable to enlist in the Regular Army. There were approximately 1,200 men in the AVR, under the command of Major Hugh Pritchard of Llangefni. They performed guard duties on the Menai Suspension Bridge and the Britannia Railway Bridge as a precaution against possible sabotage linked to unrest in Ireland. There were always 10 men on duty on the bridges.

Technically incorrect - "Anglesey Volunteer Regiment" formed 7th March 1917 - H.Q. located Church St, Llangefni. Became the 1st Volunteer Bn, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, July 1918(A.O.208/1918) and were finally disbanded 20th February 1920.

They weren't a permanent force and to-date there appears to be no record of an Anglesey Volunteer Training Corps from which most of the Volunteer Regiments were formed.

[johnboy]

The reference gives no mention of Anglesey Volunteer REGIMENT.

It gives Anglesey Volunteer RESERVES.

[Dave1418]

Can you try and post a close up of just his head and cap centring on the cap badge Helen, as that is the only visible regimental insignia that there is. At first glance it is noticeable that the badge is not reflecting any light and seems quite dark.

He is wearing the dismounted pattern greatcoat and, although the leather equipment does have the look of 1914 pattern, there is something about the pouches at the front that makes me think that it might be the final, 1902 pattern, Slade Wallace pattern equipment, which also had a snake clasp.

Hi,

he appears to be wearing a 14 pattern water bottle carrier, but the cartridge carriers not look like either the 1st or 2ndvariation of 14 pattern. Perhaps a mix of the two?

regards

Dave

[Graham Stewart]

The reference gives no mention of Anglesey Volunteer REGIMENT.

It gives Anglesey Volunteer RESERVES.

Therefore your references are incorrect and if I were you I wouldn't put a bet on the actual title of the unit considering I have a full War Office List of all the Volunteer units created during this period, plus the Volunteer List for 1918. If there is one thing I'm 100% confident of it's the title is the Anglesey Volunteer Regiment - if your reference is perhaps Wikipedia or such like, then believe me it's b*llocks.

[Graham Stewart]

I find it such a shame when people in replies, emphasise that you're incorrect with capital letters.

The attached - amongst the more knowledgeable of us, is taken from whats know as the "Volunteer Force List" for October 1918, which clearly show's the title as previously mentioned.

[Graham Stewart]

Many, many years ago when I began to get into the make-up of the V.T.C./Volunteer Force, I made this discovery from the old War Office Library - a typed up ORBAT of every Volunteer unit that was raised and what it became in 1918.

[FROGSMILE]

A.V.R. (Large).jpg

I find it such a shame when people in replies, emphasise that you're incorrect with capital letters.

The attached - amongst the more knowledgeable of us, is taken from whats know as the "Volunteer Force List" for October 1918, which clearly show's the title as previously mentioned.

That's very interesting Graham and it does make complete sense given what we know of the VTC and their successor VBs. I suspect that the incorrect use of the term Reserve as part of the unit title in the reference found by johnboy can be put down to the newness of the organisation and unfamiliarity on the part of the author.

[FROGSMILE]

Thanks for all your help :-) I've tried to blow the cap badge up, the image isn't brilliant but any bigger and there's no definition at all. photo (3).JPG

Helen I understand that you have pushed the boundaries with the definition, but looking very carefully I believe that I can see the shape of a grenade cap badge for the RWF that is very familiar to me in all kinds of light and shade as I served in the regiment for 12-years. That would also fit with forum member, Graham Stewart's, ID of the unit that we know guarded the Menai Bridge.

[Graham Stewart]

Although not Anglesey, here is a nice photo of members of Caernarvonshire Volunteer Regiment, depicting the same dress and equipment.

1st Bn, C.V.R. raised 6th June 1916, later became the 3rd Volunteer Bn, Royal Welsh Fusiliers in 1918.

[clive_hughes]

Interesting that the Carnarvon men are wearing a Royal Arms / General service -type badge. The Carnarvonshire VTC which I presume were their immediate predecessors had a distinctive badge with the Gwynedd eagle and Prince's shield on it. I once owned one, plus a pair of their shoulder titles (3rd Battalion) all in bronze. Allegedly (per the local antiques bloke in Bangor who sold them to me back in the 1970s) a whole big boxfull had been located in the Mostyn Estate office at Llandudno and sold off piecemeal. The badge is also seen in a smaller enamelled format like a lapel badge fixing. Here's a restruck one in brass which I note has "Volunteer Regiment / VTC" as the designation:

Clive

[Graham Stewart]

Interesting that the Carnarvon men are wearing a Royal Arms / General service -type badge. The Carnarvonshire VTC which I presume were their immediate predecessors had a distinctive badge with the Gwynedd eagle and Prince's shield on it. I once owned one, plus a pair of their shoulder titles (3rd Battalion) all in bronze. Allegedly (per the local antiques bloke in Bangor who sold them to me back in the 1970s) a whole big boxfull had been located in the Mostyn Estate office at Llandudno and sold off piecemeal. The badge is also seen in a smaller enamelled format like a lapel badge fixing. Here's a restruck one in brass which I note has "Volunteer Regiment / VTC" as the designation:

Caerns. VTC badge.JPG

Clive

Bet you wish you still had them. The G.S. capbadge was introduced 1916, when all of the V.T.Corps received War Office recognition and became collectively known as the "Volunteer Force", using the old Volunter Act of 1860 as it's foundation.

[clive_hughes]

Graham,

Yup, I do so wish!! My (small, basic) badge collection together with all my WW1 Welsh medals was disposed of back in the late 1980s.

Clive

[johnboy]

I find it such a shame when people in replies, emphasise that you're incorrect with capital letters.

A bit like using bold type?

My ref came from The North Wales Daily Post as part of the centenary. It is from a book by Geraint Jones.

I

[Graham Stewart]

I find it such a shame when people in replies, emphasise that you're incorrect with capital letters.

A bit like using bold type?

My ref came from The North Wales Daily Post as part of the centenary. It is from a book by Geraint Jones.

I

Yeh - will give you that one, so we're quits - source is still b*llocks though.

[Helen_1914]

Thanks for all your help, gentlemen! Brilliant that I can now pass the information regarding the regiment back to his family.

[badjez]

I've come to this thread a little late.

Might the gentleman pictured be a member of a Special Service Company? These were raised from VTC Volunteers for full time duty in the UK between July and September 1918.

Alternatively, might he have joined the National Reserve and been called up. This would apply only if he had previous military service.

Stephen.

[Graham Stewart]

I've come to this thread a little late.

Might the gentleman pictured be a member of a Special Service Company? These were raised from VTC Volunteers for full time duty in the UK between July and September 1918.

Alternatively, might he have joined the National Reserve and been called up. This would apply only if he had previous military service.

Stephen.

G.S. Capbadge indicates not V.T.C., but Volunteer Force c.1916 and later - all members were so equipped when on duty.

The National Reserve had virtually disappeared by this time and did not wear G.S. capbadges - they wore those of the unit to whom they were called up into, being equipped at a Depot or if becoming a Supernumary Company, the badge of the T.F. unit to whom they were affiliated.