ss002d6252 Posted 29 June , 2014 Share Posted 29 June , 2014 Does anyone have any particular information on the Category B Special Reserve - it appears that these were S.R. men who were enlisted from the T.F. but then kept as supernumerary to the T.F. strength. I have pieced together some bits and pieces but I'm still unclear on the whole process. T.F. Return of Oct 1913 Teesdale Mercury newspaper 25 Nov 1908 Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 29 June , 2014 Share Posted 29 June , 2014 Craig Have you looked on the Long Long Trail? There is a piece covering the various Reserve classes Seehttp://www.1914-1918.net/reserve.htm Sepoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 29 June , 2014 Share Posted 29 June , 2014 Related to the A.S.C.(T.F.) & R.A.M.C.(T.F.) only - no other elements involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 29 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 29 June , 2014 Craig Have you looked on the Long Long Trail? There is a piece covering the various Reserve classes See http://www.1914-1918.net/reserve.htm Sepoy Thanks, I had a look at that but the Category b S.R. is distinct from the Section B Army Reserve and the other aspects of the S.R. which are mentioned. Craig Cat B - TF (Large).jpg Related to the A.S.C.(T.F.) & R.A.M.C.(T.F.) only - no other elements involved. Thanks Graham - which regulations is this from ? The ASC and RAMC part probably answers something else I was pondering over. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 29 June , 2014 Share Posted 29 June , 2014 My understanding is that Section B category b of the Special Reserve is where the TF and the SR overlapped. Very small and if memory serves not very successful in recruiting..about a third of establishment. Driven, I think by the fact that the SR was also dramatically undermanned so the window was opened for the TF to fill some of the gaps in certain Corps.Liable to be mobilised and embodied along with the rest of the SR before the TF. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 29 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 29 June , 2014 Very small and if memory serves not very successful in recruiting..about a third of establishment About 1500 men in it in 1913 if I read the returns correctly from an establishment of 6500 (from Grahams post). Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 29 June , 2014 Share Posted 29 June , 2014 About 1500 men in it in 1913 if I read the returns correctly from an establishment of 6500 (from Grahams post). Craig Army Return 1913 Table 2 Page 108 shows establishment at 3,595 an strength 1,283. The last annual return pre-war. August 1914 returns might have more. I think I have the TF ones somewhere. Will revert if I can find them. MG Edit. Aug 1914 Special Reserve Returns show Establishment for category b at 3595 and strength at 1407. Only units are RE, ASC and RAMC. Breakdown available if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 29 June , 2014 Share Posted 29 June , 2014 Thanks Graham - which regulations is this from ? The ASC and RAMC part probably answers something else I was pondering over. Craig Regulations for the Territorial Force 1912 amended to 1st December 1914. Does not appear in the 1910 edition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 29 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 29 June , 2014 Thanks Graham - that happens to be next on my list to buy. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 29 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 29 June , 2014 Army Return 1913 Table 2 Page 108 shows establishment at 3,595 an strength 1,283. The last annual return pre-war. August 1914 returns might have more. I think I have the TF ones somewhere. Will revert if I can find them. MG Edit. Aug 1914 Special Reserve Returns show Establishment for category b at 3595 and strength at 1407. Only units are RE, ASC and RAMC. Breakdown available if needed. Thanks Martin - I'd looked at the T.F. return but never thought about the General Army return. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 29 June , 2014 Share Posted 29 June , 2014 Craig - T.F. Reg's are getting harder & harder to come by, so best of luck - I still haven't got a genuine 1908 copy, but have the 1910, which is probably the most elusive of all T.F. Regs. Going back to Category 'B' - a Special Army Order dated 20th November 1908 was published entitled;- Scheme for the Provision, Organisation and Training - of that portion which will be drawn from the Territorial Force to supplement the Regular Army on Mobilization being ordered. The R.E. element was infact the Army Railway Corps(R.E.), which was to include the Central Railway Establishment and 2 Railway Districts. The A.S.C.(Category 'B') was;- 98 Sgt's and 3,402 Rank & File - 3,500 Total The R.A.M.C.(Category 'B') was;- 57 Sgt's, 214 Cpl's, 2,709 Pte's - 3,000 Total - all provided by the 12 T.F. Divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 29 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 29 June , 2014 Going back to Category 'B' - a Special Army Order dated 20th November 1908 was published entitled;- Scheme for the Provision, Organisation and Training - of that portion which will be drawn from the Territorial Force to supplement the Regular Army on Mobilization being ordered. Thanks - I had guessed somewhere between the April 1908 and the 1909 Army return & the newspaper suggested Nov 1908 so that gives me the correct date Craig - T.F. Reg's are getting harder & harder to come by, so best of luck - I still haven't got a genuine 1908 copy, but have the 1910, which is probably the most elusive of all T.F. Regs. I live in hope !. I might get a re-print of the 1908 regs in the meantime but not sure as it's quite early and presumably there were substantial amendments by 1912/14. I'm just happy I got my 1914 mobilization regs through for what I think was a reasonable price (£12.00) (even if the wife did slightly rip the back page about an hr after I got it) Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 29 June , 2014 Share Posted 29 June , 2014 I have 1912 Regs for the TF. Page 48 is the relevant part. It says the relevant authority for TF enlistment into the SR is laid down in Part 3 of the Territorial and Reserve Forces Act 1907 which I suspect you can find in Hansard. The relevant Army Order is AO 207 of 1907 The main difference is that men enlisting in Category a would be deemed to be discharged and men enlisting in Category b would be supernumerary to the TF until their service in the TF has expired. I assume this simply reflects the fact that on mobilisation the Category b men would not be available to the TF. Only RE, ASC and RAMC as before. MG Edit. I suspect being 1907 it might have something to do with Haldane reforms. ..... and may have a precedent with the Volunteers being able to sign up for the Militia. Purely my speculation. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 29 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 29 June , 2014 I assume this simply reflects the fact that on mobilisation the Category b men would not be available to the TF. Only RE, ASC and RAMC as before. That's how I read it - presumably the men would train alongside the T.F. and then join with the Regulars on mobilisation. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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