Stuart Brown Posted 20 October , 2004 Share Posted 20 October , 2004 The below inscription appears on a cut down shell case. I believe the shell case to be German (?). It is 16.5cm across the base and has the following base markings : GFSP : 315 : JAN 1917 : SP197 . The firing cap is marked Schlgzdsschr14 FLSb (?). I have always thought that the inscription was Turkish but would appreciate any suggestions. Two images to capture it all. thanks Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Brown Posted 20 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 20 October , 2004 Image 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcderms Posted 20 October , 2004 Share Posted 20 October , 2004 It might be turkish but looks more arabic. The turks didn't have a standardised alphabet until Kemal sorted one out in the 20s so not 100% sure either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephyr4 Posted 20 October , 2004 Share Posted 20 October , 2004 Take a look at this shell done in Damascus and see if any of the writing matches.there is another picture of this shell on the forum. http://1914-1918.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21171&hl= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 20 October , 2004 Share Posted 20 October , 2004 It is Arabic which could also be Turkish bearing in mind they occupied all the middle east up until WW1. I can see a year date there but havnt got my tome to hand and the mind is rusty as Ive been away from that area for 2 years. Theres also an A and an R I can see but this really isnt helpful. Ill go find my book Insh'alla!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Brown Posted 20 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 20 October , 2004 Thanks everyone for the replies. zephyr4, The piece of lettering at the bottom of the right shell case bears some similarity. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephyr4 Posted 20 October , 2004 Share Posted 20 October , 2004 I have a few of these shell and the writing is slightly different on all of them, I have one which Damascus is spelt backwards, I suppose some of the people who did these thing could not read and write. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 21 October , 2004 Share Posted 21 October , 2004 Any suggestions please Turn the photographs the correct way up for the writing to be readable. Words read right to left , numbers left to right. So far we have 9th January ??? 1917 Possibly Gaza?? The rest is in progress but is not exactly making sense at this time . it is a type of Ruqua arabic predominant in Ottoman influenced countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 22 October , 2004 Share Posted 22 October , 2004 Correction to previous post, the date is 9th December 1917 which is the capture of Jerusalem. I dontoffhand know the arabic name for Jerusalem but I believe thats what it is telling us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Brown Posted 22 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 22 October , 2004 Rupert, Many thanks for your help with this query. I photographed the shell case sitting on its base so I hope that I did not confuse anyone with the upside down writing. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 22 October , 2004 Share Posted 22 October , 2004 It appears the incomprehensible: 9th December 1917 Al Sasheefa (Sassifa) Does this mean anything to anyone??? There is room for some error on my part of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Brown Posted 22 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 22 October , 2004 I know very very little about the Egyption Expeditionary Force but I did buy a book on the subject some years ago which I have just located. Willing to be proved wrong - Jerusalem surrendered on the 9th December 1917. Looking at the map there is a place named Ras el Sherife about 8 miles South West of Jerusalem. That's the nearest I can see to Al Sasheefa. Will keep looking. Thank you yet again. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 22 October , 2004 Share Posted 22 October , 2004 That seems a very likely answer to your query given the date and that this would be manufactured as a souvenir. There will be slight differences in my interpretation as this inscription uses around 4 different forms of a vowel and consonant which do leave room for error on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Brown Posted 22 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 22 October , 2004 Well that was a very satisfactory thread - I hope that I can return the favour sometime. Just for info the map. regards Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 22 October , 2004 Share Posted 22 October , 2004 Looks good to me. I f I find out any different to my interpretation I shall let you know. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 22 October , 2004 Share Posted 22 October , 2004 I dontoffhand know the arabic name for Jerusalem Re the query; What is the Arabic name for Jerusalem it is ‘el Quds’ = the holy Sorry, can’t help more re ‘sassifa’ - only the nearest Google can come up with is Al Assifa = Storm/tempest Regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 22 October , 2004 Share Posted 22 October , 2004 Clutching at straws? We've had January and December, but could the date be 9th November 1917? and could the name be Sawafir? On that date the "2nd Australian Light Horse Brigade took the Sawafir villages" during the great northward drive of Allenby's forces that followed the collapse of the Turkish Gaza-Beersheba front Regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 22 October , 2004 Share Posted 22 October , 2004 No its definitely December (see pic) nor is there a Waw (W) in the script. Al Assifa = Storm/tempest In this case = Battle That happens to fit very nicely thankyou my stray S is probably associated somehow with the Al not the Assifa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 22 October , 2004 Share Posted 22 October , 2004 Like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 22 October , 2004 Share Posted 22 October , 2004 and this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbarchetta Posted 23 October , 2004 Share Posted 23 October , 2004 Rupert, The 'tome' you refer to at the start of this thread - is this effectively a Ruqua arabic phrase book, giving examples of words etc and their arabic script from this period ? If so, what it is called - I've got several pieces of trench art from this area/period and haven't been able to find anyone who can translate the text on them. I don't wish to burden you with any more, but if there is a book that can help me, I'll buy it !! Thanks Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 23 October , 2004 Share Posted 23 October , 2004 No the book isnt specific Ruqua it is actually what you might term more classical. However I have a couple of sheets that give a few variations which I nicked off the web also some Hindi which happens to be very similar, they are essentially the same in all texts just the writing style differs as did English over the years.The book I have is by: Hipocrene Language Studies Arabic for Beginners. ISBN 0-7818-0114-1 However it is very in depth and is by no means a tourist booklet.The point to remember with arabic is that it is very diverse. Spoken arabic is not directly reflected in written arabic .Spoken or local arabic can be similar to a slang, as can other languages. If you want I shall look at your scripts if you send or post a photo. I dont offer guarantees though as Im by no means an expert at this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 23 October , 2004 Share Posted 23 October , 2004 and so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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