just anger

[laurent59]

As chairman of a veterans association, i participated at many meetings for prepair the commemoration of the centenary.

I'm anger about all what i hear !

I'm scared when i hear some tourism professionals speak about the centenary of the great war ! In the meeting I hear only talking about money !

When some speak about the British coatches who will come to visit the battlefields, they call it "Full of chinese bus"! or "how to fix tourist buses"!

I did never heard talking about the soldiers memory in these meetings.

I never seen so much of "historian" or "tourist guide" that I never seen before !!!

They look the centenary with eyes that look like dollards symbol, like in a cartoon of Tex Avery !

Centenary Jack-pot for them !!!

Shame on all these raptors !!!!

Sorry for ma anger

[depaor01]

Hi Laurent59,

I think you may be confusing two things. There will be the people who are interested in providing facilities for visitors to the commemorations, there will be visitors who will want to use those facilities to visit and pay their respects.

The people providing the facilities will hope to make a profit. This is to be expected. The people using those facilities will hopefully enjoy additional comforts.

Great War tourism started immediately after the conflict and I am sure those organisers profited from it.

I personally don't see a problem as long as nobody is ripped off.

A tour bus operator may not have any interest in the Great War, never mind the soldiers' memory.

Regards,

Dave

[Hedley Malloch]

It's a hard one isn't it? Many people (including contributors to this Forum) do make money from battlefield tourism. Some of these are tour operators who as Dave points our have no particular interest in battlefields. And we cannot expect them to have that, no more than we should expect the history teachers who accompany British children to the battlefields to have a deep and passionate interest in WW1. But we need tour operators. What is the alternative - thousands of unorganised visitors milling around the battlefields.

The beneficiaries are not all tour operators or bus companies. Where would towns like Albert and Ypres be without the battlefields?

Where there is money there will always be a tendency on the part of some to loutish language and behaviour. How can it be controlled? We could license tour operators and battlefield guides, the way the French government do for mountain guides in the Alps. We could instil a sense of professionalism into battlefield tourism by organisations such as the Guild of Battlefield Guides.

Or we could set up a site - RateaGuide.com - with poppies awarded for 'respect for memory'.

I was interested in your comments on Chinese tourists. I live near the battlefields and I have never seen any. I teach Chinese students (in Lille) and I usually find some way of working the Chinese Labour Corps into the conversation. Without exception they have absolutely no knowledge of Chinese involvement in WW1 and they are amazed to learn that there was any.

[centurion]

It's a hard one isn't it? Many people (including contributors to this Forum) do make money from battlefield tourism. Some of these are tour operators who as Dave points our have no particular interest in battlefields. And we cannot expect them to have that, no more than we should expect the history teachers who accompany British children to the battlefields to have a deep and passionate interest in WW1. But we need tour operators. What is the alternative - thousands of unorganised visitors milling around the battlefields.

The beneficiaries are not all tour operators or bus companies. Where would towns like Albert and Ypres be without the battlefields?

Where there is money there will always be a tendency on the part of some to loutish language and behaviour. How can it be controlled? We could license tour operators and battlefield guides, the way the French government do for mountain guides in the Alps. We could instil a sense of professionalism into battlefield tourism by organisations such as the Guild of Battlefield Guides.

Or we could set up a site - RateaGuide.com - with poppies awarded for 'respect for memory'.

I was interested in your comments on Chinese tourists. I live near the battlefields and I have never seen any. I teach Chinese students (in Lille) and I usually find some way of working the Chinese Labour Corps into the conversation. Without exception they have absolutely no knowledge of Chinese involvement in WW1 and they are amazed to learn that there was any.

I have seen a Chinese couple (well I assumed that they were Chinese, of South Asian origin certainly) in one of the Chinese cemeteries. Always worth remembering that as well as members of the Labour Corps Chinese seamen also lost their lives (some were buried in this cemetery).

Without money and profits to be made there would be no tours, guides, facilities, accommodation etc. People have to make a living and because they do so serving the battlefields (and may discuss the economic ins and outs of their industry) does not automatically mean that they have no respect. Like any other group of people some will have respect and some may not.

[T8HANTS]

My wife's ancestor Sgt Major Edward Cotton of the 8th Hussars, became the first battlefield guide at Waterloo, and probably the worlds first battlefied guide. From the money he made he bought a property there, had his own very well stocked museum, and was eventually buried within Hugomont ( being later reintered near Brussels I think). He made his living from his memories as a veteran of the battle, and the little book he wrote. Clearly he did very well for himself, being very well thought of by Royalty and other more elite patrons. Not bad for a lad off a farm from the Back-o-the-Wight.

So turning a profit from such activities is as old as the profession itself.

[Hedley Malloch]

Without money and profits to be made there would be no tours, guides, facilities, accommodation etc. People have to make a living and because they do so serving the battlefields (and may discuss the economic ins and outs of their industry) does not automatically mean that they have no respect. Like any other group of people some will have respect and some may not.

I would not underestimate the importance of the not-for-profit motive. Some people (including many here) do memory, battlefield and related activities for nothing or at below cost. They do it out of interest or because they feel it is 'right', not for money. You don't normally have to worry about respect from them. But for many others it is a business and for this group respect comes down to the individuals concerned.

[stevem49]

Think of Ypres not so many years ago and the theme park it is turning into now. There will no doubt be many profiteers during the next four years but I do not think Laurent is talking about battlefield guides etc but the ones jumping on the band wagon to make as much money as possible.

Personally I detest the phrase 'battlefield tourism'

As mentioned if someone sees a way of making a few bob, they will go for it. Take the fight over old Richard's remains - He who get the remains, gets the tourist cash.

Maybe there is a mix up here over - profits and greed. Some do it and make profits and that is fine but it is the ones who attempt to screw every Euro out of you, are not (in my humble opinion).

SM

[Stoppage Drill]

Think of Ypres not so many years ago and the theme park it is turning into now. There will no doubt be many profiteers during the next four years but I do not think Laurent is talking about battlefield guides etc but the ones jumping on the band wagon to make as much money as possible.

Personally I detest the phrase 'battlefield tourism'

I am reminded of the sentiments and comments in "The Years After" epilogue Middlebrook's "First Day . ." written early '70s. Something along the lines of "not many people visit the battlefields and cemeteries these days . . . "

Many of the visitors books in the remoter cemeteries hadn't had an entry for months, or even years. I recall the custodian at Newfoundland Park running over to me, in the otherwise empty acreage, and giving me a rusted old SMLE and tin hat, being so glad to see some visitors . . . . . and Y Sap crater being a hole in the ground still . . . and so much else.

Was it better then, or am I simply showing the symptoms of age, maudlin reflections on a lost, better time ?

I don't think I will ever go back.

[centurion]

I am reminded of the sentiments and comments in "The Years After" epilogue Middlebrook's "First Day . ." written early '70s. Something along the lines of "not many people visit the battlefields and cemeteries these days . . . "

Many of the visitors books in the remoter cemeteries hadn't had an entry for months, or even years. I recall the custodian at Newfoundland Park running over to me, in the otherwise empty acreage, and giving me a rusted old SMLE and tin hat, being so glad to see some visitors . . . . . and Y Sap crater being a hole in the ground still . . . and so much else.

Was it better then, or am I simply showing the symptoms of age, maudlin reflections on a lost, better time ?

I don't think I will ever go back.

Whereas the last time I was at Newfoundland Park I found the Canadian volunteers so resolutely and seriously cheerful I almost had the feeling they were about to pull out a book of texts and try and convert me to something. Same at Vimy (a member of our party described them as "over twinkly") I'm sure they do a worthwhile and excellent job but it feels a bit Disney (but at least I wasn't told to have a nice day).