Medal ID please?

[Andy Wade]

This man is from the 6th Battalion West Riding Volunteers in, I think, 1915. I have a group picture of 7 men and one officer sat with a round shield trophy that is for the annual platoon competition. All except one man are wearing this medal and I'm stumped as to what it could be. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Andy.

[auchonvillerssomme]

Possibly an Army Temperance Association medal.

[rksimpson]

Hi

Certainly not a gallantry or campaign medal

See - http://www.stewartbooks.com/Temperance_Medal.htm

regards

Robert

[Old Owl]

Hi Andy,

It certainly has the look of an ATA medal and according to my little book on ATA medals it does have similarities to the 20 year ATA India medal--which I doubt it is due to the apparent age of the soldier wearing it!! It could be a locally produced ATA medal or some other medal for shooting or suchlike?

Is there any chance of showing the full photo? Hopefully it may be possible to identify the officer or even the trophy from the photo.

Regards, Robert

[auchonvillerssomme]

I looked through the book as well, couldn't see the medal or the ribbon, it could be any award I suppose, there are some shooting medals that look like it.

[rflory]

Except for the voided spaces between the cross and the wreath it looks similar to the Greek Medal of Military Merit.

[Khaki]

In general isn't it against regulations to wear unofficial medals on service dress, I thought the medal looked Belgian?

khaki

[Andy Wade]

Thanks everyone, bit of a puzzle this one!

Here's the full picture, which I've just scanned from the Adjutants photo album which is in Keighley Library archives (a very, very exciting little treasure trove).
The shield is one presented by Captain (later Major) Roper. There are many more photos like this in it and some photographs of unique moments from Keighley's local history as well. I'll be happy to crop out smaller sections to show individual men in greater details, in order to keep within the maximum image size allowed by the forum software.

[Andy Wade]

Here's the best view I can get of each medal worn by these men. I'm wondering if it's locally struck for winners of the platoon competition. They look very recently awarded?

Using my standard questioning of every photograph I see (amongst other questions):

Why was it taken? --- These men had just won the platoon shield and this is the picture which was taken for the battalion archives.

Where is it? --- Possibly Stone Gappe at Lothersdale?

Who is it? --- We haven't worked out their names but we already know that these are the 6th Bn West Riding Volunteers. Check their apparent ages, especially the man on the extreme right. I have a nominal roll for the 6th bn of the WRV, so we may one day be able to match some of these men up with their names. That's for later though...

[Old Owl]

Interestingly I think that the only man not wearing this medal is wearing the P.W.O.West Yorkshire Regt badge and also ribbons for the QSA and KSA? So perhaps he is some sort of instructor attached to the volunteers?

I am now almost certain that this is some sort of medal associated to the platoon shield, because all the remainder as volunteers are wearing it and the only man not wearing it is not a volunteer but probably a regular soldier, which as has already been mentioned, and may preclude him from wearing one in uniform--possibly?

A great photo all the same!!

Robert

PS The medal appears to have a King's Crown at the top? so is definitely not the Greek War Cross nor a Belgian award.

[Old Owl]

The RSM to the officer's right wears a QSA ribbon and the officer appears to have a 'T' below his Duke of Wellington's W.R.Regt. collar badge--but of course the 6th Bn were territorials.

Unfortunately I don't recognise anyone in the group. Are any of the photos named?

PS I don't think that the house is Stone Gappe--but I shall try and find out.

[Andy Wade]

I think you're right and this is a locally struck medal for shooting or something, connected with the platoon shield. Good point about the regular soldier without a medal, I was also wondering about him. To me these men have just had these medals pinned on their chests and sat down for the photograph, it just looks like one of those occasions. Thing is that there aren't enough men for a platoon, so I think this is the section that won the shooting bit and got the medal, or it's all the best shots from the platoon posing with their shooting medals. There's another picture - which might be from a later date, but with the same platoon shield and there are 38 men and one officer (Second Lieutenant Raymond Booth Scott) in the picture so that's more like a full platoon to my way of thinking. I haven't looked yet to see if all these men are on the larger photograph. I'll post a copy of it on here in a bit...

I'm still going through the album that I've scanned completely. There are two other archive boxes connected with it, one has original officers examination sheets and lots of other interesting paperwork related to what the battalion did (yes, I know... )

The other has some mounted photographs, some of which have lists of names (officers I think) so they may lead us to identify the officers pictured, at least.

I've still to scan all of that. (I also have the 1700 digital newspaper photos and they do include officers which may help to identify them.)

I have an agreement with the library to put my own time in to scan these archives and present them with an indexed copy so they have a full digital copy for their own archives, the knock on effect is that I get pretty unique access to scan at the library and examine the scans in fine detail at home, the contents of quite a number of Great War relevant archive boxes.

My plan is to continue going through the Keighley News for the Great War as well (I have a full digital copy for the Great War period on my computer) and see if I can match up any of these photographs with ones in the paper and then transcribe the accompanying newspaper text and attach these printed transcriptions in with the original photographs in the archive boxes. Some of this work will be on display from this Saturday 21st June when it's Keighley library's 'Great War Open Day' (I'm giving the talk as well).

So I'll be sharing more stuff on here and asking questions of you chaps as and when these perplexing questions arise.

Thanks again for the comments so far, very thought provoking.

[Andy Wade]

Here's the other picture that contains this platoon shield (reduced in size to fit the forum's upload limits):

(edited to add: this was definitely taken at Keighley Drill Hall in Lawkholme Lane - note the roof beams in the picture - I checked these out in the drill hall just the other day and they're a perfect match)

[Andy Wade]

I should add that there are some pictures of Stone Gappe in the album. I have just pinned one picture down to being the side door which you can see here and also in this picture from the album:

(note the tent pegs at bottom right)

[Old Owl]

Not the same door as the original picture though--I suspect that that one may be somewhere else?

This final photo is great and shows some member of the Volunteers proper--although the guy at the back looks like a Canadian Mountie?

[Andy Wade]

Not the same door as the original picture though--I suspect that that one may be somewhere else?

This final photo is great and shows some member of the Volunteers proper--although the guy at the back looks like a Canadian Mountie?

That door in the first group shot could be almost anywhere I suppose (it doesn't actually look like Stone Gappe), I'll have to see where else they went for training. But it could easily be somewhere in Keighley as well, perhaps near to the Drill Hall.

The Officer on the left of the picture in post #14 is T.(?) W. Elliott. He's named in another picture:

These are great pictures aren't they?

[Old Owl]

Absolutely amazing that these have been preserved--a great record of the Keighley and District Volunteers for WW1.

He appears to be wearing a medal ribbon--possibly that of the V.D. or Volunteer Decoration. This was an officer's award and a forerunner to the T.D. or Territorial Decoration.

PS I think that it may be J.W.Elliott

[Old Owl]

I should add that there are some pictures of Stone Gappe in the album. I have just pinned one picture down to being the side door which you can see here and also in this picture from the album:

(note the tent pegs at bottom right)

Stone Gappe side door.jpg

The chap with the 'Mounties' Hat also appears to wear the QSA, KSA and LS&GC medal ribbons. I wonder who he is? Does he appear in any other photos?

[mmm45]

The guy in the "Mounties" hat maybe a member of Legion of Frontiersmen he has a similar jacket to their uniform

Ady

[Andy Wade]

His collar dogs do look like LoF ones. That, with the chain mail epaulettes and lemon squeezer hat makes him a very good candidate for LoF. He is on another photograph and is named in the accompanying list as either H or M Sellers:

Front row L - R
Commander A. Sellers, F Binns, Sub-Commander Dr Maggs, Commander W Roper, Co-Commander H Longsden, Co-Commander L Brigg and Dr W Dobie.

Second L - R
Platoon Commanders P Thwaites, Jas Woodrow, W B Naylor, H Weatherhead, Craven, N Walker, Pilsbury.

Back- L - R
Platoon Commander J Crabtree, H Sellers, Adjutant Clayton, Platoon Commander P Clough

[Khaki]

The group photo of officers, I am guessing with mourning arm bands for the death of King Edward VII, would be probably taken between May the 6th 1910 and May the 20th.

khaki

[Andrew Upton]

The group photo of officers, I am guessing with mourning arm bands for the death of King Edward VII, would be probably taken between May the 6th 1910 and May the 20th.

khaki

They aren't mourning bands - they are the red armbands with the black GR (for "Georgius Rex", but jokingly referred to "Georgeous Wrecks") worn by Volunteers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_Training_Corps_(World_War_I)#mediaviewer/File:VolunteerTrainingCorps_Uniforms.jpg

[Andy Wade]

Dr W Dobie (on the right of the front seated row) later worked at the recently extended Morton Manks War Hospital as a surgeon, for the duration of the war.

Dead centre of the seated front row is Captain (later Major) Roper, who donated the round shield for platoon compeitions seen in post #8 in this thread. Cracking waxed moustache.

[Old Owl]

His collar dogs do look like LoF ones. That, with the chain mail epaulettes and lemon squeezer hat makes him a very good candidate for LoF. He is on another photograph and is named in the accompanying list as either H or M Sellers:

WW1036cc.jpg

Front row L - R

Commander A. Sellers, F Binns, Sub-Commander Dr Maggs, Commander W Roper, Co-Commander H Longsden, Co-Commander L Brigg and Dr W Dobie.

Second L - R

Platoon Commanders P Thwaites, Jas Woodrow, W B Naylor, H Weatherhead, Craven, N Walker, Pilsbury.

Back- L - R

Platoon Commander J Crabtree, H Sellers, Adjutant Clayton, Platoon Commander P Clough

Many thanks Andy for posting this cracking photo of the officers. I am pretty certain that W.B.Naylor is William Beecroft Naylor who was a Bank Manager in Keighley and lived at 'Worthville'(now demolished) just off Park Lane and later at 'Oaklands' on Skipton Road--now a funeral parlour.

His son Sec.Lt.William Balme Naylor, 1/6th Bn Duke of Wellington's W.R.Regt. was killed in action on 16th September,1916, at the age of 19. At the time of his death he had just been promoted to Brigade Bombing Officer. There is a brass plate in Keighley Parish church to his memory:

"A boy, he spent his boy's dear life for England. Be Content: No Honour of age had been more excellent."

Robert

[Old Owl]

Interestingly Clayton, back row, Roper and Longsden, front row, all appear to have medal ribbons. Clayton and Roper look like QSA ribbons and Longsden possibly a Coronation medal(1911?)

Sellers is a well known Keighley name and had my father still been alive I may well have been able to ask him if he had any recollection of these gents. I shall however see what I can find out. Roper and Longsden also ring bells.

Robert