Half-pint Posted 19 October , 2004 Share Posted 19 October , 2004 Hello: We have the following photograph from our Grandad's service in the Ypres area [25 Sept 1915 - 6 June 1916]. The caption reads, "Dickson, Flour Mill, Flamintinare" ... although I cannot say for sure how that placename is spelt. Can anyone help, please? Dickson was probably one of Grandad's mates in the 28th Btn CEF. Alison Causton, in "the valley", Nova Scotia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhill Posted 19 October , 2004 Share Posted 19 October , 2004 Perhaps that would be Vlamertinghe (I hope my spelling is lucky today!). That would be just a mile or two west of the town of Ypres. Many, if not most troops in the salient would have passed through it on their way in and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leigh Posted 19 October , 2004 Share Posted 19 October , 2004 Pramin**gre? I think It ends ...gre L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 19 October , 2004 Share Posted 19 October , 2004 My opinion : Flamintinghe or something very close to it. Which probably could be Vlamertinghe (spelled now as Vlamertinge), firsdt village west of Ypres as jhill said. If only someone had a photo of a flour mill at Vlamertinge ... Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 19 October , 2004 Share Posted 19 October , 2004 Names of Vlamertinge and the dates: 1066: Flambertenges 1123: Flamertinghe 1221: Vlamertinghe 1285: Flamertenga 1636: Vlamertijnghe 1903: Vlamertinge Maybe on the mill it was still written in meideval style..., but the mill can't be so old (maybe the site of the mill was) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bonza Posted 19 October , 2004 Share Posted 19 October , 2004 Caption says: 14 Sept 1917 .English soldiers passing a typical Flanders windmill near Dickebusch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bonza Posted 19 October , 2004 Share Posted 19 October , 2004 14 Sept 1917. Capt Hurley near windmill. The building & background suggests the same Windmill. The sails do not. Difference in sails probably due to absence of contrasting backdrop. Despite apparent differences in outline this would almost certainly be the same mill in both pics. I did not search under place names or Flourmill etc. I would vote for Vlamertinge, as postcard was probably not eritten whilst facing a signboard, and lots of places tened to be spelt phonetically "from memory" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 19 October , 2004 Share Posted 19 October , 2004 Bonza, Is this mill at Vlamertinge ? (I'm only asking because there are some differences.) Kristof, I don't think the name was on the mill itself, only handwritten beneath the photo. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 19 October , 2004 Share Posted 19 October , 2004 How Flemish is the name Dickson??However , I agree with Leigh, it looks to have an gre at the end so may be French Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 19 October , 2004 Share Posted 19 October , 2004 This looks equally much like two seperate words . Also how Flemish is the name Dickson?? Rupert, Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean that the name which looks like Vlamertinge (present spelling) is in two separate words ? It looks like one to me. And Dickson is totally un-Flemish. But I suppose Dickson is the name of the soldier in front of the mill ? Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bonza Posted 19 October , 2004 Share Posted 19 October , 2004 Rupe . About as Flemish as the Tommy in the picture, probably. Pat Aurel I was having touble posting the pics, Not 100% sure but thet seem to both be of the same mill near Dickebusch. AWM suggests that these were typical for the area, and would confirm Alison's suggestion of near Ypres. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frie Posted 19 October , 2004 Share Posted 19 October , 2004 Hello, According to the book "Molens van de frontstreek" Verpaalen John P.--(Mills in Ypres, Zonnebeke, Heuvelland, (Kemmel, Wijtschate ,.... ) ... this is a mill in Dickebus near Hallebast. It's "Van Eeckes Molen" or the "Witte Brood" Molen" (Honeymoon ?) White bread mill. This mill stood first in Steenvoorde (France) and was rebuild in Dikkebus 450 m from the old (destructed) mill. (1878). Van Walleghem (vicar of Dikkebus) in his diary of the war says that the mill was destroyed on Good Friday 21 april 1916... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 19 October , 2004 Share Posted 19 October , 2004 Aurel, Ive actually revisited that post and edited it. I have also played with the image. I can see Flamintingre now but it is still meaningless as to where at the moment. Vlamerting had a brick mill with no sails. I would not expect another mill in the village . Yes, silly of me to think the Mill belonged to Dixon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frie Posted 19 October , 2004 Share Posted 19 October , 2004 hello, I wrote about the second pictures... May be the first picture is a mill in Dikkebus - Bailleuls molen - (now near El Molino)on the street to Ypres. There is a picture of this mill taken by srgt; Christopher Pilkington, this mill was destroyed after 16 july 1916 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Half-pint Posted 19 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 19 October , 2004 Hello again: ... and thank you, very much, for your analyses and replies. Grandad --Pte H.N. Causton-- would have snapped the photograph before 6 June 1916, which is the date he was injured & captured at nearby Hooge. Dickson was one of his mates in the Canadian Corps ... I am still trying to sort out which Dickson. I am inclined to vote for 'Vlamertinge' and very much appreciate all of the contributions, including the history of the name of the village and the different colour applied to the handwriting. Regards, Alison Causton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bonza Posted 19 October , 2004 Share Posted 19 October , 2004 G'day Frie The pictures of the second mill were taken in September 1917. Regards Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frie Posted 19 October , 2004 Share Posted 19 October , 2004 Bonza, Are You very sure of september 1917? because on 21 april 1916 there was a terrible bombardment on this place. 400 bombs in less than 3 hours... So the mill had been very lucky.. I think that the conclusion of "Verpaalen" was wrong, but when in the war was this mill destroyed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 19 October , 2004 Share Posted 19 October , 2004 Viewing the various graphics above, I reckon it is simply Flamertinghe, an understandable phonetic Brit spelling of Vlamertinghe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bonza Posted 19 October , 2004 Share Posted 19 October , 2004 Frie Mate, thank you for the question! Some time back there was a thread in which the integrity of the Australian War Photographer was questioned. The first of the two AWM picture is of, and the second is [probably] taken by that person, Captain Hurley. In 1916 he was 'otherwise employed' as photographer to Shaclkleton's expedition a long ways to the south of Belgium. He did not arrive in Flanders until mid 1917 & did some brilliant portrayals of conditions & actions, particularly in the early battles of 3rd Ypres. The captions on the AWM pictures specify the date 14 September 1917. Although disappointed that Hurley's meticulous attention to detail has not been reflected in the AWM references, this is just another example of the assistance that our appreciation of WW1 events has been provided by Captain Hurley. His camera never lies. Other copies of these pictures may be contained in some of the many other publications drawing on the works of Capt Hurley. They may provide greater detail to the "near Dickebush". There is no proof that Hurley's & Dicksons Mills are one & the same. The AWM caption describes theirs as 'typical of the area' and IMHO they do look similar. This answer may appear a little long-winded. It is, and I loved every minute of it. One hardly ever gets asked a question to which they have the yes/no answer. THanks again Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frie Posted 19 October , 2004 Share Posted 19 October , 2004 Take a look at the construction at the top of the mills, different (roof)shapes so the first and the second mill are not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 19 October , 2004 Share Posted 19 October , 2004 The building & background suggests the same Windmill. The sails do not. Difference in sails probably due to absence of contrasting backdrop. The difference may be due to the capacity to 'furl' and 'unfurl' sails in some windmills. May yet be the same windmill. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 19 October , 2004 Share Posted 19 October , 2004 Difference in sails probably due to absence of contrasting backdrop. The difference is accounted for by the fact that the louvre boards and frames would make excellent firewood for Tommies brew.It is possible to climb these sails to rotate them which makes it easy to salvage the materials.It is undoubtedly the same mill in the two pictures by Bonza but not the same mill as in the original post. There again (quick edit here!!) It must have had a preservation order on it because as can be seen the sails are complete in both pics barring louvres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 19 October , 2004 Share Posted 19 October , 2004 This is getting complicated as often it seems that we do not know if we are talking about the same photo. In my opinion there can be no doubt that the two AWM pictures show the same mill. Far too many similarities. And I agree with Frie : there are differences between on the one hand the AWM mill and the "Dickson" flour mill mill. At least a dozen or two. Aurel (Rupert, I wrote this posting before I had seen yours.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bonza Posted 21 October , 2004 Share Posted 21 October , 2004 The difference is accounted for by the fact that the louvre boards and frames would make excellent firewood for...brew. In that case, I recant all previous statements, and now accept that the date MUST have been 1916. By September 1917 the AIF had been in the area for a week or so & nothing that attractive would have survived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 21 October , 2004 Share Posted 21 October , 2004 Bonza, Just re-read the post regarding firewood. I edited it after playing with the image and it is clear that the sail frames are the same in both pictures and it was as you said just the overexposure that makes them invisible. So you are most probably correct in your date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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