S84/98 (71/84 conversion) Bayonet Markings

[peregrinvs]

Hi,

I wonder if someone could translate the regimental markings on this 1888 dated S84/98 (71/84) bayonet? I think it reads as 'R.16.135'

Thanks,

Mark

[trajan]

I'll let the antipodean SS do the markings for you, and if he fails I'll PM them to you when I return home in a week or so, but that's a very nice bayonet! Luneschloss ones are not that common - I can let you have details on frequency.

[peregrinvs]

I'll let the antipodean SS do the markings for you, and if he fails I'll PM them to you when I return home in a week or so, but that's a very nice bayonet! Luneschloss ones are not that common - I can let you have details on frequency.

Hi Trajan,

Yes, all information gratefully received.

Thanks,

Mark

[trajan]

Hi Mark,

I guess Shipping Steel is hiding out somewhere - he closed his last active post in a bit of a huff as he didn't like how things were not going his way! I am travelling and don't have access to any books, but I'll make a guess on this - and then he'll have a chance to correct me .

To my mind and to my limited experience those markings don't look right for a regular army issue, but they do seem - on memory alone - to be right for a Weimar police unit marking. If so, then the 'R' would probably be for Röslin. I do have a copy of the 1932 official police handbook for weapons markings at home and so if nobody chips in with a correction or proper identification before the week is out I'll check with that when I get home.

Julian

[sawdoc34]

Hi Mark,

another real nice bayonet you have pickef up, especially like the original scabbard & as Trajan says the luneschloss examples are harder to find, well done

I also picked one of these up lately, altho mine is the more common maker WKC, 89 dated & marked 59.R.6.126 but it came in an OWEG made all steel scabbard. Any info on regiment greatly appreciated also,

Aleck

[trajan]

I also picked one of these up lately, altho mine is the more common maker WKC, 89 dated & marked 59.R.6.126 but it came in an OWEG made all steel scabbard. Any info on regiment greatly appreciated also,

Aleck

Stop making me jealous... Still haven't heard for certain re: UK in September but if there I'll come and catalogue your collection in return for something nice, like, e.g., a choice of a high-eared and/or unit marked job...

PS: Infanterie-Regiment Freiherr Hiller von Gaertringen (4. Posensches) Nr. 59, see: http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/IR_59

[msdt]

I think it's right for a WW1 or earlier marking. I have just received Jeff Noll's new treatise (as advertised on Trajan's German Unit Bayonet Markings topic started on March 20 - thanks Trajan!) and can see similar markings.

The marking is, I believe, R.16.1.35, the 1 is bigger than the 3 and 5 and can I see the dot? I think this is a non-standard version of 16.R.1.35, so making it the 16th Infantry Regiment.

In a similar vein, I think I am now happy I have identified a 98/05aA that I have. It is marked 2E55.2K823. I was really struggling with this, but I see on page 141 of Jeff's book there is 2.E.55.2.K 57., Infanterie Regiment 55, Ersatz Bataillon 2, also on an s84/98. So I think mine is non-standard re the dots.

Cheers,

Tony

[peregrinvs]

another real nice bayonet you have pickef up, especially like the original scabbard & as Trajan says the luneschloss examples are harder to find, well done

Thank you, although I must fess up that the scabbard is my own later addition and was acquired wrapped around an unremarkable WWII S84/98. It has no markings, so I have a nagging suspicion it is actually a Spanish M1893 scabbard. Given the improbability of acquiring a correct German scabbard however, I'm not too stressed about it.

I don't recall where I got the bayonet, although I think it was inexpensive and I do remember it was pretty grubby and unloved. It cleaned up reasonably well though and holds the title of the oldest German bayonet in my collection.

[trajan]

I think it's right for a WW1 or earlier marking. I have just received Jeff Noll's new treatise (as advertised on Trajan's German Unit Bayonet Markings topic started on March 20 - thanks Trajan!) and can see similar markings.

The marking is, I believe, R.16.1.35, the 1 is bigger than the 3 and 5 and can I see the dot? I think this is a non-standard version of 16.R.1.35, so making it the 16th Infantry Regiment.

In a similar vein, I think I am now happy I have identified a 98/05aA that I have. It is marked 2E55.2K823. I was really struggling with this, but I see on page 141 of Jeff's book there is 2.E.55.2.K 57., Infanterie Regiment 55, Ersatz Bataillon 2, also on an s84/98. So I think mine is non-standard re the dots.

Cheers,

Tony

Hi Tony,

Glad you like Jeff's treatise! He took a lot of persuading to come out with this new edition, but fortunately I had support from a lot of US of A bayonet collectors and he finally caved in! You can see my initial plea for a new edition (copies of the old edition was selling 2nd hand for over GB 400.00!) and the debate it started on:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?351895-Anybody-know-Jeff-Noll&p=2980748#post2980748

Yes, I feel rather redundant now that many GBF and GWF members have bought a copy of the new edition... But so glad Jeff agreed to do this and that it has appeared!

Thank you, although I must fess up that the scabbard is my own later addition and was acquired wrapped around an unremarkable WWII S84/98. It has no markings, so I have a nagging suspicion it is actually a Spanish M1893 scabbard. Given the improbability of acquiring a correct German scabbard however, I'm not too stressed about it.

I don't recall where I got the bayonet, although I think it was inexpensive and I do remember it was pretty grubby and unloved. It cleaned up reasonably well though and holds the title of the oldest German bayonet in my collection.

The scabbard looks fine - have you checked it, though, for any fraktur marks on the chape / finial or the top mount / locket? It could be a German one! As for getting it inexpensively, well, you lucky something or the other...

Trajan

[peregrinvs]

Apologies for resurrecting a 10 year old thread, but I was reminded of this bayonet in my collection by the recent ‘airship battalion’ bayonet thread.

The R.16.1.35 marking was identified as being for the 16th Infantry Regiment. But which specific German regiment is this? Having googled it, there seem to be several involving a 16 in their title.

Also, what does the 1.35 refer to?

[AndyBsk]

Problem by similar units stamps are that some of the older unit that were on S71/84 bayonets were not removed, most real by removing of the crosspiece barell ring the old number in front of the R could be removed that is a one explanation and the 16 is for 16.Company weapon nr.135, this could be confirmed by real looking at the piece with magnyfing glass, or the unit is a new one which means done in war period, not under manual stamping and the Regiment is nr.16, then 1.Company and weapon nr.35?