Mystery Bayonet

[Raster Scanning]

I was given this bayonet and know nothing about it at all.

It has numerous small round stamps on the quillion mostly indistinct but one is an 'R', there is also the number 18089 (this is repeated on the scabbard).

Can anyone tell me if this is WW1, or before?

I suspect it is French but have no real idea.

At 68 Cms (26.5 Ins) it is quite long and must have been unwealdy

Any ideas greatfully received.

Thanks.

John.

[museumtom]

This is the Chassepot bayonet from c1870s.

Tom

[museumtom]

Me again.

I just thought I would add that this bayonet is French and was the official bayonet for the Chassepot Black powder rifle used by the french Army during the period 1866 until they adopted the Gras rifle in 1874.

I have one myself and they are one of the nicest bayonets. The USA had their own bayonet which was very hard to distuinguish from the Chassepot bayonet. The blade is curved in this way for a reason. It is called a yataghan blade and is shaped like this because when it is on the rifle the blade will not be in your way when you are using the ram rod.

To buy one of these with the scabbard in good nick would be about £50-£90.

Keep an eye out for them on ebay under the heading Chassepot bayonet or m1866 bayonet.

Tom.

[Raster Scanning]

Thanks again Tom.

Appears I was way 'Off Topic'.

John.

[CROONAERT]

John.

Is there no engraving on the top of the blade? This is where a date and manufacturer can usually be found (though they quite often wear off).

It's an absolutely beautiful piece, don't you think? I actually used one to cut my wedding cake (in the abscence of a Dreyse bayonet, which I really wanted!) when I got married.

It's not that far off topic, though, as they did see limited use during WW1 (I found the remains of one near Boezinge back in the 1980's and also one near the Butte de Warlencourt (though I suspect this was a relic from the Battle of Bapaume in January 1871).

Dave.

[Raster Scanning]

Hi Dave.

Yes I am really pleased with it. I visited my Godmother for the first time in many years while on holiday in the UK.

She presented me with this as no one in her family wanted it and she would otherwise throw it away.

I was a bit concerned bringing it back to Brunei in my luggage, but it was OK as long as it was not in the cabin.

There is an 8 on one side and the other side appears to have makers marks but they are too worn to read.

Interesting that they were still in use during WW1.

Cheers.

John.

[CROONAERT]

It's not that far off topic, though, as they did see limited use during WW1 (I found the remains of one near Boezinge back in the 1980's and also one near the Butte de Warlencourt (though I suspect this was a relic from the Battle of Bapaume in January 1871).

Just for interest's sake, this is the "Boezinge bayonet"...

[Ski]

John,

Just to add to the above, i also have one of these Bayonets. It was given to me by a friend of the family a few years back, however the bayonet also has German marks on both the handle and the blade.

I found out through a book at the library(can't remember the name of it now) that this is because large stocks of them were taken after the Franco-Prusian War, back to Germany where they were re-stamped.

However, i don't know if they were ever re-used by the Germans during the Great War or not.

Might be worth checking on yours for any such marks!?

Cheers

Ski

[Raster Scanning]

Thanks Ski.

What am I looking for?

Cheers.

[Ski]

John,

Just popped out to the shed and here's a couple of scans. I believe the marks you are looking for are crowns.

They are either Anzic or Spandau factory marks,(I made the notes about this bayonet few years ago and so thats why i'm bit vaque, sorry!)

Here the first scan of the blade:-

[Ski]

and of the rear of the handle:-

Cheers Ski

[Guest Ebro1938]

Yes, the M-66 was used by second-line troops in WWI & this was a practice followed by other nations as well.

The M-66 was actually in service with the French air force for guard use at least as late as 1939, on the M-1874 Gras artillery musketoon or foot gendarmerie carbine.

German-marked blades were not restamps but are believed to have been supplied to the French firms by subcontractors.

The spine markings were removed in some cases, either by the Germans or other users.

What's the date on that dug specimen?

Large numbers of such arms were sold at surplus in the late 19th century to around WWI, & the Germans got many by purchase. I have a German unit-marked example dated 1868; such early ones could be Franco-Pruss captures.

The design was widely copied, & the US Remington (also used by the French) is almost identical; it lacks the guide mortise at the base of the M-66 pommel.

See: LES BAIONNETTES REGLEMENTAIRES FRANCAISES, 1840-1918. Gazette des Armes.

[CROONAERT]

What's the date on that dug specimen?

C'mon, Dave! It had been underground for about 70 years (if you're referring to the Boezinge one - 112 years if you mean the Warlencourt one). A bit of etching on the spine of the blade isn't going to survive that!!!!

Dave. (no markings visible whatsoever, the condition is too corroded).

[Guest Ebro1938]

That's often the case, but it depends on soil conditions. Sometimes markings can survive very well so i don't just assume they are gone. I have a German 84/98 II bayo found recently in sandy soil in Galicia, lost in WWI, & all the markings are clear.

The King's Head is the mark of Alexander Coppel, Solingen.