Looking for image of Great War passport and/or info on it

[catfishmo]

Does anyone have an image of a British passport? I am assuming all VADs and nurses needed one (saw reference to it in a diary), and I am curious as to what info it had on it.

This is all my internet search turned up:

“A new format was introduced in 1915: a single sheet folded into eight with a cardboard cover. It included a description of the holder as well as a photograph, and had to be renewed after two years.” [from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_passport]

Wikipedia also included a list of the data on the passport, but I think that was only for modern-day ones. (Surprisingly, address is not included, but origin of birth is.)

Did soldiers need one to return to England on leave or on hospital ship? What if they lost it or it was ruined in the 'mess' of war? What was the process for having one re-issued?

Thanks!

~Ginger

[johnboy]

I have not come across anything that mentions soldiers passports. The most important piece of 'id' seems to be their paybook and of course id discs.

Men returning to the UK would have done so on hospital ships, id already known and by ship on leave with an army form giving address that they were going to. Again id established before leaving.

[Falloden]

I have two WWI era Passports for my Grandfather who was captain of ss "East Point". The cover looks rather similar to the normal blue British passport we probably all remember, but the inside folded out as one large sheet, similar to a map. I will try and find one to copy or give you details.

[catfishmo]

I have two WWI era Passports for my Grandfather who was captain of ss "East Point". The cover looks rather similar to the normal blue British passport we probably all remember, but the inside folded out as one large sheet, similar to a map. I will try and find one to copy or give you details.

Great! I really appreciate it.

Can anyone confirm nurses and VADs needed a passport? I have not seen any reference to them having ID disks although I suppose they did have a paybook. How exactly did the paybook work?

~Ginger

[Falloden]

Two British passports issued to my Grandfather, both in similar single stiff sheet format unfolding from hard covers like a map ( and difficult to scan or photo !)

1) In solid blue cover with Royal Arms issued on 16 November 1917

2) in blue cover with windows for number and name issued on 14 October 1919.

[Falloden]

Here is the detailed description section, rather difficult to scan or photo. Please let me know any further detail(s) you may require. These were obviously "civilian" documents, as captain of a merchant ship my Grandfather was classed as a civilian so perhaps non-combatant nurses were too.

[johnboy]

(Surprisingly, address is not included, but origin of birth is.)

British Passports today do not have an address. People move address fairly often so it would be an inconvenience to have to keep applying for a change at, probably, great expense.

[catfishmo]

Thank you so much for doing this!

The page you scanned is what I am looking for. Unfortunately, it is hard for me to make out the fancy script. I see it notes:

-age

-place of birth

-eye color

-height

-hair

-Frame

-nose? -mouth? chin? complexion? That is a little funny. How many ways are there to describe a mouth or chin that 5 people would all agree accurately describes the feature!

Can't make out the rest. But it confirms to me that it does not note current address. Also, I suppose that if a man was travelling with his wife and children, they would not need their own passports.

Since it is all handwritten, I suppose one could apply for, and receive the passport in a day or so--and the reference I saw in a VADs diary confirmed this.

What is the info right after age? Looks like they squeezed a lot of info on a short line.

Many thanks!

~Ginger

Edited 12 May , 2014 by catfishmo

[Falloden]

Have transcribed the details

DESCRIPTION OF BEARER

Age......... Profession...........

Place & date of birth.............................

Maiden name of widow or

married woman travelling singly.................

Height ............feet .......inches

Forehead................. Eyes................

Nose......................... Mouth..............

Chin.......................... Colour of Hair.............

Complexion............... Face......................

Any special peculiarities..........................

National Status........................

Below these details was a photograph of the Bearer, and below that his signature - all double impressed with Foreign Office stamps. The document was issued by the Foreign Office, London and was impressed with a six pence Revenue stamp. From my experience obtaining a British Passport has always been a lengthy and bureaucratic nightmare. Application Forms have to be completed, photos obtained and someone in official standing has to sign that he/she personally knows you and confirms your identity and likeness to the photograph. If your VAD got one in a day or so she must have known how to pull strings !

[Falloden]

Endorsements (or visas) were noted on the rear of the single sheet passport. My Grandfather's passport is endorsed at Naples on 21 January 1918 by the British and French consulates and by the Italian authorities to enable him to return to the UK overland after his ship, ss Rapallo, was sunk by an Austrian submarine off Sicily. I have a receipt from the British Admiralty dated 29 January 1918 for "despatch from British Consulate General Naples with £6 Gold and Notes" so he made reasonable time back to London.

[hillgorilla]

This is very interesting to me. My Great Grandparents married in Gibralter during the Great War, my great grandfather being connected with mining in Spain (which was connected to the WW1 war effort), and my Great Grandmother went out there. I never really thought about the aspect of a passport as a historical record, I wonder if there is some archive or record connected with them somewhere?

[johnboy]

They maybe on a passenger list if you have the date they came back and where they disembarked.

[CarylW]

This is very interesting to me. My Great Grandparents married in Gibralter during the Great War, my great grandfather being connected with mining in Spain (which was connected to the WW1 war effort), and my Great Grandmother went out there. I never really thought about the aspect of a passport as a historical record, I wonder if there is some archive or record connected with them somewhere?

This might help. The National Archives page about historic passports. They 'hold some registers and indexes up to 1916, of passport applications but not the actual passports themselves'

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/passport.htm

Would be interesting to hear if anyone has had any success (or failure) with the registers and indexes

[Sue Light]

Can anyone confirm nurses and VADs needed a passport? I have not seen any reference to them having ID disks although I suppose they did have a paybook. How exactly did the paybook work?

Any nurse or VAD who went overseas under contract to the War Office didn't need a passport, only permission to embark which was sent with their travelling orders. Any nurse or VAD who went overseas with the British Red Cross Society, the British Committee of the French Red Cross, or any independent organisation, did need a passport. That means that the majority of VADs travelling overseas did not need passports.

Sue

[hillgorilla]

This might help. The National Archives page about historic passports. They 'hold some registers and indexes up to 1916, of passport applications but not the actual passports themselves'

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/passport.htm

Would be interesting to hear if anyone has had any success (or failure) with the registers and indexes

Thanks for this info. It may just lead me to another avenue of understanding about my family.

[catfishmo]

Any nurse or VAD who went overseas under contract to the War Office didn't need a passport, only permission to embark which was sent with their travelling orders. Any nurse or VAD who went overseas with the British Red Cross Society, the British Committee of the French Red Cross, or any independent organisation, did need a passport. That means that the majority of VADs travelling overseas did not need passports.

Sue

Thank you, Sue. The reference I saw to a passport was in a diary (The Little Grey Partridge) about a gal who went to Serbia to be a cook with an all women hospital unit so it makes sense.

Were these traveling orders documents that the person held on to and presented coming/going from England? And if a returning VAD lost them, what office in France would she visit to get them replaced?

~Ginger

[Sue Light]

I can't say how they would have been replaced overseas, but for some idea of the process for getting papers for proceeding overseas chapter 2 of Laurence Binyon's 'For Dauntless France' is the best account I know of - the book is now available on the web.

Sue

[johnboy]

I would think that a travel document was issued as a 'one way'. So a new document would be issued for return.

[catfishmo]

I haven't even had a chance to read the account Sue referenced, but came across this little gem in A V.A.D. in France (Olive Dent): [she was preparing to leave for France as a VAD]

Monday: "Spent the morning at St. John's Ambulance Headquarters where we were provided with arm brassards, identity discs, and identity certificates in place of passports, the latter most unflattering documents containing a terse, crude and unvarnished account of our personal appearance, age and address."

In the next paragraph, she answers a few more questions:

Tuesday: "Our party of a hundred V.A.D.s—members of St. John's Ambulance Association, St. John's Ambulance Brigade and the British Red Cross Society—left Charing Cross Station this morning." {.Beginning of Ch II}

So we see what organization she was associated with. Not sure we can assume that she applied for and received the identity certificates on the same day, but it is mildly implied. My earlier assumption that VADs and nurses did NOT have identity discs was WRONG. The papers issued her, 'identity certificates', appear to have the same info as a passport but with the addition of including address. Interesting!

In response to johnboy about the travel document being for one way: In The Little Grey Partridge, the reference to her obtaining a passport (I think it was called a passport, but could have been called something else) was on her return trip from Serbia. I thought it was a bit odd that she would need to get new papers to go back to England. There was no reference to her having lost other papers, and she mentioned it as if were a common occurance. I got the book through interlibrary loan, and at the time had no interest in this passport question, so I didn't pay that close of attention. Since I don't have the book in my possession, I can't easily look up the reference again.

Edited 13 May , 2014 by catfishmo

[Sue Light]

Passports and identity certificates were two separate documents. Everyone needed an identity certificate to prove who they were and which organisation sponsored them. If it was the War Office, then the need for a passport was overridden. The British Register of Overseas Volunteers, which lists all staff going out under various organisations, gives both certificate numbers and passport numbers if applicable.

Sue

[johnboy]

Some interesting info.

I still think travel docs, as opposed to passports, would have been issued on a journey basis. The travel document would have been issued for leave. It was probably used as id when embarking and disembarking and would also include return passage. Not sure what docs wounded men would have other than medical notes and possibly a transfer doc. Obviously, in these circumstances a ' return' could not be issued until the man was fit to return to his battalion.

Again. a nurse with leave could be issued with a ' return' .

Can we assume that the travel document was for id and a ticket?