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Naval marked 1907


msdt

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Following Trajan's discourse on naval marked 1888's, here's a 1907. One re-issue for 1922. Assume the Navy had the blade rounded - maybe bayonet practice on a ship is a bit hazardous!

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That's an interesting one! But where is the 1922 mark?

Trajan

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Bottom picture, on the left, kind of black. Look a bit like 8's in the picture.

On the right of the same picture is what seems to be an EFD over 51. Haven't seen any such marks before.

Whether the Naval issue was original or after 1922 I don't know.

Tony

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Do you realise that this example was once a 'hooked quillon bayonet'.? Quite a fall from grace having the famous hook severed, and then the point blunted for bayonet practice.!

Cheers, S>S

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Bottom picture, on the left, kind of black. Look a bit like 8's in the picture. ... Whether the Naval issue was original or after 1922 I don't know.

Thanks for the information!

As to the 'N' stamps I have wondered if there is any way of dating these - some people claim / imply that they are post WWI but I think that nobody knows for certain. The 'N' marks do appear on several P.1888's, and some of those are in re-modelled P.1907 scabbards, but none of these that I know of have re-issue stamps. So, yes, could be that the re-issue stamp on yours was when it was re-issued for naval service which was when the 'N' stamp was applied, but...???

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Hi Trajan,

I am fairly sure that the N itself does not help re whether it was stamped before 1922 or after. My pictures (reposted below) of my Royal Naval Brigade 1888 I think point to items being N stamped prior to WW1 as well. When the RNB was formed they were armed with weapons from Royal Navy stockpiles, and these were Long Lee Enfields, hence the 1888 bayonet. My contention would be that this bayonet already had the N for Naval ownership on it when it got issued to the RNB.

Here is a reference to the Royal Navy converting Long Lees from 1908 onwards and stamping N's.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Eq2Dnj4sDZIC&pg=PA252&lpg=PA252&dq=%22rifles+of+the+royal+navy+smle%22&source=bl&ots=sbvEp9JzCQ&sig=Y5HXu-ViEC9lUZ_jyjI-Xz_gfWM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kDNuU6KDHKj00gWRuoA4&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22rifles%20of%20the%20royal%20navy%20smle%22&f=false

Due to the 22 reissue stamp however, maybe it did enter naval service after 1922.

Tony

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I have shown this before but still don't really know the answer, no re-issue dates, the 'N', stamped on both sides appeared after a soak in petrol and a scrub.

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Thanks Tony! Much appreciated!

I have shown this before but still don't really know the answer, no re-issue dates, the 'N', stamped on both sides appeared after a soak in petrol and a scrub.

You mean that that 'N' on (both of) the grips is the only mark? Nothing on the pommel? Hmmm...

TTFN,

Julian

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No marks on pommel, it is painted but I'm sure there isn't anything there. Actually I'm hoping the stamp is rubbish because I'd like to change the grips, it is a nice bayonet.

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What is wrong with the grips? They look nice and untouched.

Tony

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Actually Mick, I think that bayonet could have been used later (interwar>ww2) by the RN. I have never seen just a plain N used, but they did use the paint.

Cheers, S>S

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I have a set of grips and I wanted to put them on something is the only reason, but usually as soon as I think about it I stay with the original.

The paint is interesting, the metal surface looks as though it was prepared before the paint was applied so a proper job.

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If someone's carved crude initials into the grips, or there is a big chunk of wood missing, or something else that makes the grips unsightly, then I can agree with maybe changing them. In your case, those N's look to be part of its history, and someone some day will spot another which may confirm the RN provenance.

I like learning about things like the black paint. Maybe it was a reaction to the shiny finish that seems to be on all the metal parts on my RNB bayonet and scabbard - and also on the scabbard that came with the above 1907.

Cheers,

Tony

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I don't know when the RN decided they needed a different finish on their bayonets, but certainly during WW2 one of their Wilkinson contracts for new P1907's definitely specified a "blackened finish".

Cheers, S>S

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just a thought, perhaps the tip was rounded over to save piercing awnings rigged when "out foreign". Naval and Bootie guards were often paraded on quarterdecks which would or could have had awnings rigged in warmer climes.

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Just a thought, perhaps the tip was rounded over to save piercing awnings rigged when "out foreign". Naval and Bootie guards were often paraded on quarterdecks which would or could have had awnings rigged in warmer climes.

That's an idea! I like it!

I don't know when the RN decided they needed a different finish on their bayonets, but certainly during WW2 one of their Wilkinson contracts for new P1907's definitely specified a "blackened finish".

Cheers, S>S

Has to be a LOC - Is it in Skennerton? If not, would you give the reference please? :thumbsup:

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I don't know much about the Navy but would they really have rounded off the tip of a bayonet so it serves solely as a parade bayonet without tarting it up in other ways, polishing blade, varnishing grips? I just can't imagine anyone in authority allowing men to parade with what is effectively a butter knife attached to their rifles.

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Bayonets were usually rounded off like this for practice.

The conversion was approved 21/12/1914 as "Practice model" they were usually stamped DP on the TOP of the pommel (under the channel)

Such a conversion is illustrated in Skennerton and Richardson p189.

Chris

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Hi,

My bayonet is rounded off rather crudely, and as can be seen in the picture it is not perfectly circular. More steel removed compared to the regulation practice one. Guess it is for practice purposes, but perhaps not done by an armourer. Shame in a way as otherwise the blade is nice.

Cheers,

Tony

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Bayonets were usually rounded off like this for practice.

The conversion was approved 21/12/1914 as "Practice model" they were usually stamped DP on the TOP of the pommel (under the channel)

Such a conversion is illustrated in Skennerton and Richardson p189.

Chris

Sorry I missed a bit off my post, I should have said a sharpened butter knife, the one in the pic appears rounded but not blunted.
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  • 1 month later...

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