German Landsturm Units in Belgium

[wyliecoyote]

Lamdsturm were usually composed of older men (39-45)

When a boy turned 17 he was "drafted" into the Landsturm for administrative purposes. Would usually spend few years there until turned 20 when

drafted into regular armay.

While in Landsturm would receive only minimal training if any at all

Anyone have info if youngsters would serve in Belgian Landsturm formations?

dman that was the case in pre-war times, Landsturm was an administrative term. The Landsturm in actuality did not exist until the mobilization commenced in 1914. In peacetime the Ersatz troops were the gents that received the minimal training.

[wyliecoyote]

And as I think the Landwehr were used in the East, if they are in Antwerp they would be Landsturm

The Landwehr, the same as Landsturm, Reserve, Aktiv, were used on all fronts.

[wyliecoyote]

Ken that sounds like an very interesting book. What is the title? Was that a Landwehr Regiment?

[Ken S.]

The regiment history for Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 81 apparently was published in two volumes, then latter republished in a single volume. On abebooks.com there are two of the single volume prints, and one copy of the 1st volume. They are quite expensive, but it's possible that it will be digitized by an institution sometime in the next few years.

[Ken S.]

It's "Regiment greift an!" by Fritz Engelbrecht. He refers to it as an "active regiment" but hasn't given a number.

Ken that sounds like an very interesting book. What is the title? Was that a Landwehr Regiment?

[wyliecoyote]

Too bad, but is does sound like a Landwehr outfit with those replacements. Although when times were tough, who knows what replacements went to which Ersatz Btl.

[Ken S.]

I went over the previous chapters more carefully, and the protagonist was a member of a Landwehr regiment on the eastern front until late 1915/1916 - the story skips forward a year to December 1916 when he has been a member of a "newly formed regiment" for about a year - he also states that "most of the men were young". In the part of the chapter that I translated the German is: "ein aktives Regiment, für ein erprobtes Sturmregiment der Westfront".

[dman]

I remember back in 1970's we had to register for draft when turned 18 - would go to principal office and sign up

The draft had ended for Vietnam war and military was going to all volunteer force

Had some benefits (signing up for draft that is) - drinking age in New York where I grew up was 18

SOOOOO if had a draft card could buy alcohol or hang out in bars.......

[mebu]

Looks like the landwehr were not too highly regarded.......

Peter

[trajan]

Nice one!

[joerookery]

Here is an interesting artifact that I do not know if it is attributable to Belgium or the Balkans. Looks to be some sort of homemade helmet for a Landsturm unit with a Landwehr helmet marking. I don't know what I don't know.

My first thought was that this was all okay. But now I am not so sure. L= Landwehr. X1=Küstenschutz-Bataillon Aurich, später 1. Ldst.-I.-Btl. Aurich (X. 1)

So we have a Landsturm unit with a Landwehr marking. They were often mixed but I see no indication in this case. Where exactly did these guys serve I don't know.They were mobilized in 1914 and you can see the scant information on them in the site http://www.forum14-18.de/themen/ostfrie ... eekorps/#3

so I have more work to do but I intend to track them down. This is not easy.

[trajan]

Good luck! I get the impression from the occasional search through Google Deutschland that there are not too many people over there writing on the Landsturm and Landwehr units... The Reserve and Erstaz units are somewhat better treated but not by much!

Trajan

[foxy.jack]

Hello,

I am new to this forum.

I am searching for further information about the activities - movement - composition - armery of the 1.Landsturm. Infantery btl Altona ((IX.14) during WW1 in Belgium.

greatings

Foxy

[foxy.jack]

Thanks everyone for the huge information.

Greatings

Foxy, the Belgian trencher

[hubbar49]

In Marche en Famenne, Belgium, the III Armee Korps brang at least 3 Landsturm Bataillons from Saxony (40, 45, 89)

They were mainly from thee region of Glauchau and Neu Meuranne

Some soldiers had the Model 1888 rifles, some had the M1897

Regarding the headgears, some had the Waxed kepi with the Balkan Kreuz, other had the Shako, and more scarce, some units had a few pointed Helmets...

for Shako and M1888 rifle http://genealogie.marche.be/14-18/LandsturmBat40.jpg

(could somebody read the place -after digit 5- written in German old scripture?)

For Waxed kepi and M1888 rifle - and side mounted Bayonnet!,

see http://genealogie.marche.be/14-18/LandsturmBat89.jpg

For Waxed kepi and M1897 rifle - and old style ammunition pouchs,

see http://genealogie.marche.be/14-18/LandsturmBat1897.jpg

for Pointed Helmet and M1888 rifle http://genealogie.marche.be/14-18/LandsturmBatPickel.jpg

(could somebody read the place -after digit 5- written in German old scripture?)

From the same Unit, could somebody explain the Collar Letters and Digits?

http://genealogie.marche.be/14-18/LandsturmBatIIIB6.jpg

And, the cherry on the cake: FeldTelegraphist on

http://genealogie.marche.be/14-18/LandsturmZug.jpg

ItalianPows: http://genealogie.marche.be/14-18/p20bis.jpg

The Landsturm Bataillons came in Belgium after the Marne Battle, when the troops began to entrenches themself on the fixed front.

They were used to keep an eye on the Raylways , but also on the Electrified fence between the Low Countries and Belgium

The hard work was mad by POWs (British and mainly russians, and, after the Brest-Litowsk traety of 1917, the italian POWS were "lended" by the Ausstro-Hongrian armies, ater the Caporetto-Disaster...

[trajan]

In Marche en Famenne, Belgium, the III Armee Korps brang at least 3 Landsturm Bataillons from Saxony (40, 45, 89)...

Great photographs - thanks for sharing although one (http://genealogie.ma...turmBat1897.jpg) would not load... I can't help with the place name on the first one, but will look at uniform matters later when I have time.

Trajan

[bierast]

Here is an interesting artifact that I do not know if it is attributable to Belgium or the Balkans. Looks to be some sort of homemade helmet for a Landsturm unit with a Landwehr helmet marking. I don't know what I don't know.

My first thought was that this was all okay. But now I am not so sure. L= Landwehr. X1=Küstenschutz-Bataillon Aurich, später 1. Ldst.-I.-Btl. Aurich (X. 1)

So we have a Landsturm unit with a Landwehr marking. They were often mixed but I see no indication in this case. Where exactly did these guys serve I don't know.They were mobilized in 1914 and you can see the scant information on them in the site http://www.forum14-18.de/themen/ostfrie ... eekorps/#3

I do not think this helmet has anything to with Ldst. Inf. Batl. X.1. The Prussian Army is not my field, but my initial guess would be Landwehr-Pionier-Kompagnie X.1 (1. Landwehr-Pionier-Kompanie / X. Armeekorps). Landwehr and Landsturm pioneer companies were both numbered in this manner by corps of origin.

[bierast]

In Marche en Famenne, Belgium, the III Armee Korps brang at least 3 Landsturm Bataillons from Saxony (40, 45, 89)

They were mainly from thee region of Glauchau and Neu Meuranne

At the outbreak of war 3. Armee (not III.AK) contained most of the mobile formations of the Royal Saxon Army, and initially had the following Landsturm battalions at its disposal; I have added some basic notes on their early war (ca. 1914-1915) dispositions.

1. Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Dresden XII.1 (collar numbers '45', possibly also '46'? In Namur and subsequently Dinant)

2. Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Dresden XII.2 (collar numbers '45'; in Brussels as of Sept. 1914)

Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Bautzen XII.3 (collar numbers '63'; in Libramont, Sedan and later Charleville)

1. Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Leipzig XIX.1 (collar numbers '48'; in Vouziers and Rethel)

2. Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Leipzig XIX.2 (collar numbers '48'; in Mariembourg / Marienburg and Berzée, later in and around Antwerp)

Numerous other Saxon Landsturm battalions came to France and Belgium from September 1914, and I will not attempt a list here (I have sixteen pages of notes covering the movements of all these units during the war, and some of them are still proving very difficult to pin down). Ultimately Saxony raised a total of fifty-six independently numbered Landsturm infantry battalions (XII.1-22, XIX.1-34) as well as Landsturm-Infanterie-Regiment Nr.19 (which was more like a Landwehr unit in many respects, and a serious combat formation), a few Landsturm cavalry / pioneer / artillery units (all formed from overage reservists rather than previously untrained amateurs), fourteen Armierungs-Bataillonen (labour battalions of the 'unarmed Landsturm') and at least eight small guard companies for POW labour units.

The first battalion wearing the collar numbers of the (purely administrative) '89. Landsturm-Brigade' to arrive in France and Belgium was probably Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Glauchau XIX.15. This unit was declared mobile on 5th September 1914, and served under Landsturminspektion Namur, Kreischef Marche and Kreischef Dinant during 1914-1915. Photographic evidence puts at least part of the battalion at Leignon near Namur in early November 1914, and its 2. Kompagnie (or part thereof) guarding the railway at Rochefort in early June 1915. I think this battalion is probably the one you referred to as 'mainly from the region of Glauchau and Meerane'.

The Saxon brigade numbers were as follows:

XII.AK: 45, 46, 63, 64

XIX.AK: 47, 48, 88, 89

The Landsturm battalion in your photo with '40' on its collar is (as the rest of their uniform indicates) not a formation of the Royal Saxon Army.

[trajan]

I do not think this helmet has anything to with Ldst. Inf. Batl. X.1. The Prussian Army is not my field, but my initial guess would be Landwehr-Pionier-Kompagnie X.1 (1. Landwehr-Pionier-Kompanie / X. Armeekorps). Landwehr and Landsturm pioneer companies were both numbered in this manner by corps of origin.

At the outbreak of war 3. Armee (not III.AK) contained most of the mobile formations of the Royal Saxon Army, and initially had the following Landsturm battalions at its disposal; I have added some basic notes on their early war (ca. 1914-1915) dispositions. ... The Landsturm battalion in your photo with '40' on its collar is (as the rest of their uniform indicates) not a formation of the Royal Saxon Army.

Excellent work there Andi, and so many thanks for the information - and the hint on the uniforms! And looking forward to the book!

Julian

[bierast]

Thankyou. Regarding the Saxon Landsturm battalions, I should have noted that the 'Roman corps / Arabic battalion' numbers quoted above (XII.1, XIX.1 etc.) are the final ones ca. 1916-1918. These were also worn on the collar in that period. When the brigade numbers were still worn, the battalions were simply designated as I. Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Dresden, II. Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Leipzig etc.

My Great-Grandmother's uncle, one Paul Freund from Zwickau served with 1 Kompanie / 3. Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Leipzig XIX.3 in 1917. At the time the battalion was stationed at the Albertgarten in Leipzig-Anger. Together with 1. Landsturm-Ersatz-Bataillon Leipzig XIX.6 it spent most of the war in and around the city of Leipzig, guarding things and functioning as a replacement depot for the Saxon Landsturm battalions in the field. According to several written sources (but no photos I've seen), Ldst. Inf. Batl. XIX.3 was eventually mobilised and served with General-Gouvernement Belgien in 1918.

http://www.royalsaxonarmy.co.uk/images/LandsturmXIX3_PaulFreund_1917.jpg

http://www.royalsaxonarmy.co.uk/images/LandsturmXIX3_PaulFreund_1917_bk.jpg

[shippingsteel]

for Shako and M1888 rifle http://genealogie.marche.be/14-18/LandsturmBat40.jpg

(could somebody read the place -after digit 5- written in German old scripture?)

From the same Unit, could somebody explain the Collar Letters and Digits?

http://genealogie.marche.be/14-18/LandsturmBatIIIB6.jpg

Firstly, the writing shown on the board after the 5. reads Korporalschaft, which translates as Section. This is the small sized sub-unit of the Bataillon.

The collar dogs on that photo, shows these troops to be part of the III. Bayerische Armee Korp, Nr.6 = Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Gunzenhausen

(The III in Roman numerals shows the particular Armee Korps, the B indicates Bavarian in this case, and the 6 is the 6th Landsturm unit of the Korps)

Cheers, S>S

[joerookery]

I do not think this helmet has anything to with Ldst. Inf. Batl. X.1. The Prussian Army is not my field, but my initial guess would be Landwehr-Pionier-Kompagnie X.1 (1. Landwehr-Pionier-Kompanie / X. Armeekorps). Landwehr and Landsturm pioneer companies were both numbered in this manner by corps of origin.

I don't know Andi, lots of contradictions here. Look at this one. Very similar markings.

ps965 by joerookery, on Flickr

This is one big picture of contradictions. The L on that helmet cover is supposed to be for Landwehr. This guy is clearly Landsturm. Notice the winter coat and gloves. Then take a look at the springtime backdrop used by the photographer with flowers and a warm Lake.

w. III. Ldst.I.R.Nr. 13 (XIII. 26)

Vorher 2. Ldst.-I.-Btl. Ulm (XIII. 14)

[bierast]

I don't know Andi, lots of contradictions here. Look at this one. Very similar markings.

Point taken - and thanks for the warning of the existence of this anomaly! I've certainly never seen anything like that in 'our' army. Given that your example is from XIII.AK it may have been a specifically Württemberg oddity - are there any other known photos of this (preferably from X.AK)?

So it seems that it's possible that Ldst. Inf. Batl. X.1 indeed wore the style of helmet numbers displayed on your interesting artefact. However I do still think that Ldw. Pion. Komp. X.1 is the more likely possibility, as (I am fairly sure) this would actually be the correct and official combination of letter and numbers for that unit. Unfortunately I have no photos of any Landwehr-Pionier-Kompagnie wearing Pickelhauben for reference (I only have one postcard from each of the two such Saxon companies in my collection after all these years, which gives some idea of how frustratingly obscure the Landwehr-Pioniere are).

[joerookery]

I don't know but it is a very good question and set of contradictions. Photographs like these seem rare and I have nothing from X Corps.

[hubbar49]

"The Landsturm battalion in your photo with '40' on its collar is (as the rest of their uniform indicates) not a formation of the Royal Saxon Army"

Could it be a Landsturm Unit from Celle?

I have a picture with a handwritten note saying "hello to Celle" but no apparent collar!

I would be very interrested by a description of their duties along with Railways protection?

What was the extent (or the length ) of the railway they had under their responsability?

You tell something about Rochefort (where I was born...).

Do you possess a picture from that place? How interresting...